oh *fandom*

[mimesere]

sometimes you make me want to cry. and/or punch people.

but hey! On the other hand, now I totally know who to avoid in fandom! So...that's a plus. *tries to look on the bright side*

(god, it JUST KEEPS GOING and horrifies me more and more).

ETA: the posts in question
In which Teyla and Ronon are white! No, really! - I swear, the more I hear about race relations in, um, England/Ireland/Wales/Scotland/what-have-you, the less likely I am to ever ever go there.

and!

In which the reason there's not more fic about characters of color is because they are not leads! or not hot enough! or interesting enough! Because when they *are*, there's a lot of fic! No, really!

Comments

[buddleia.livejournal.com]

I swear, the more I hear about race relations in, um, England/Ireland/Wales/Scotland/what-have-you, the less likely I am to ever ever go there.
Well, I personally hope you do come here one day, sveets, so I can take you to First Out and buy you tea, but it really is a somewhat different discussion if you're not American and sometimes things need to be explained. Don't get me wrong, I think people who take the positions you've linked to are pretty fucking misguided, but when faced with an argument that is overwhelmingly US-centric in its points, language and history, misunderstanding is bound to occur. You're going to hate me for this, but I do not necessarily see Hispanic people on telly as non-white unless it is *marked*, unless it is a class thing. We're making an imaginative jump to a US-cultural view (which we all do all the time as we all watch US media), and that imaginative jump may not take us to the same place as a US viewer. If you are Hispanic here in Europe, you are probably from another European country, which is a different kettle of fish entirely, or else you are South American, which is yet another. 'Hispanic' simply doesn't translate except via US media.
God forbid I defend racism and, if I ever do by accident, I hope and expect everyone who cares about me pulls me up sharp, but it's not a simple thing and I do understand why people go off on what seem like silly tangents about the nature of whiteness and nationality over here. As to the original issue about Teyla and Ronon and their roles in AU stories, that is simple and if I could marry ciderpress (damn her silly heterosexuality!), I would. She's said everything I want to on the subject. Except the part about being Asian, because I'm not and that would be a lie.

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

I want to come visit you so much! (Really, I keep looking at airfare to London and going, "Hmmmm.")

And I do get that the Race Discussion is almost always framed in terms of American POV which is difficult for people that aren't, er, steeped in it, but I'm just so *frustrated*. And a lot of what frustrated me about lasultrix's post -- and I'm not assuming she meant it this way, but that's how it *felt* -- was the way she kept saying things like, "Jason Momoa considers himself to be not white and if we can't trust him, who can we trust?" like...wtf? That's AWFULLY NICE OF YOU TO LET HIM SELF-IDENTIFY. And it's not (seriously not) that I think she *meant* it that way, but. Yeah. And so I'm left going, "Wait, wait, but do the people that you are categorizing as being white see *themselves* as white?" because race/ethnicity/etc is such a big, big part of cultural and self identity here that I have a really difficult time imagining that it's not the same for people elsewhere. It feels weird (and by weird I mean creepy) to me to think that I would be considered white when it's not who I am and it hasn't been my experience and the fact that I'm *not* white is actually a big part of how I define myself. It's not *who I am*. And so I read the sentence about how like, is she denying a Latino their identity if she doesn't think of them as not-white and there's a part of me that goes, "Yes! Yes you are!" because...it's *such* a huge deal.

And the thing about the hispanic question is, people from spain? I totally identify as white European. People from central/south america? Totally not white. And a lot of that is based on knowing things like the darker skinned people in central/south america are usually seen as being...less by the lighter skinned people in the same place because the darker skin usually indicates interracial of-Spanish-descent and native.

I don't know. I am rambling and I totally understand that there are misunderstandings because of the cultural differences and I know that I am *hugely* US-centric in the way that I see things and that I am being unfair. But...I *am* frustrated because I'm reading all these posts and comments and stuff and it *hurts*. It hurts to know that this place that I considered a safe space *doesn't think* about me (me me me, it's all about me) or that it when it does think about me, it's in relation to How I Should Just Forgive Them Because They Didn't Mean It or they think about me and how maybe I am being oversensitive and reaction-y and it really hurts to know that fandom (at least the parts I'm familiar with) has been having this conversation semi-annually for at least the last five years and not only has nothing changed, but the anger and frustration levels grow exponentially every time I realize that nothing has changed and that just makes everything worse.

And ciderpress's post is totally with the awesome.

Also, I totally love you best.