a really incredibly rough, non-illustrated timeline for Heroes 1x20

[mimesere]

Mostly because I am trying to decide how best to format an illustrated version of this. Possibly this will need to involve flow charts or an animation.

Please note, this is a *really rough* timeline because there are whole episodes in there that I ignore 'cause they don't matter right this second in establishing What Happened to get the timeline to "Five Years Gone."


I went with 2007 as a year because the bumper put the "Five Years Gone" in 2012. Specific dates where I have them, the dates around "Homecoming" are iffy, largely because I couldn't see the calendar in the background clearly and I haven't given this the thorough rewatch that I should and it's harder to tell what the subsequent dates are without those.


Timeline A
late september-10/02/07 - 1x01 (discovery of powers, etc)
10/02/07 - 1x02 (Hiro jumps through space and time to NYC). Hiro jumps forward to 11/08/07, sees explosion, returns to 10/02/07 with the issue #14 of the comic, decides to save the world.
10/03/07-10/04/07 - 1x03 (Hiro's been gone from Japan for two days)
10/05/07 - Hiro arrives in LV.
10/12/07 (ish) - Sylar in Midland, Texas. Kills Charlie-the-waitress.
10/13/07 (ish) - Claire tastybrained by Sylar. Sylar gains regenerative power.
10/13/07-11/07/07 - unknown.
11/07/07 - Nathan wins election.
11/08/07 - Issue #14: "Hiro Arrives in New York" is out on newsstands. Isaac's dead body is discovered (tastybrained by Sylar). Hiro tries to kill Sylar, fails due to Sylar's absorption of Claire's powers[1]. Explosion.
sometime in 2012 - Hiro decides to go back and deliver the message "Save the cheerleader, save the world."



Up until the events of "Hiros," timeline B is a reiteration of timeline A. Once the "save the cheerleader, save the world" message is delivered, the timelines split. Timeline A ceases to exist, timeline B becomes primary[2].

Timeline B
04/07 - "Six Months Ago"[3]
late september-10/02/07 - 1x01 (discovery of powers, etc)
10/02/07 - 1x02 (Hiro jumps through space and time to NYC). Hiro jumps forward to 11/08/07, sees explosion, returns to 10/02/07 with the issue #14 of the comic, decides to save the world.
10/03/07-10/04/07 - 1x03 (Hiro's been gone from Japan for two days)
10/05/07 - Hiro arrives in LV. future!Hiro travels to this date in time and delivers the message "Save the cheerleader, save the world."
10/05/07-10/12/07 - Stuff happens. Peter, Hiro, and Ando make their way to Odessa to save Claire.
10/12/07 (ish) - Sylar in Midland, Texas. Kills Charlie. Hiro jumps back in time to some point in 04/07 (start iteration 2 of timeline B or ignore this if it is confusing).
10/13/07 (ish) - Claire saved by Peter, Sylar DOES NOT get to tastybrain Claire and become regenerative. Peter has vision of himself exploding in NYC[4].
10/13/07-11/07/07 - all sorts of stuff (end of 1x11-1x19). Hiro jumps forward in time to 11/08/12. Isaac sends Issue #15 of comic to publisher. Isaac is killed by Sylar. Hiro returns from his trip 5 years into the future.
11/07/07 - Nathan wins election.
11/08/07 - Issue #14: "Hiro Arrives in New York" is out on newsstands. Isaac's dead body is discovered (murdered by Sylar). Explosion.
11/08/07-11/08/12 - It all goes dystopic.
prior to November 8th in 2012 - Hiro decides to go back and deliver the message "Save the cheerleader, save the world."
11/08/12 - Hiro meets future!Hiro and tells him that a) they saved the cheerleader and b) that they haven't killed Sylar. Events of "Five Years Gone." Hiro grabs the "Hiro in the Future" comic and takes it back with him when he returns to the first week of November-ish.



Timeline C
This is possible, but iffy. Because future!Hiro doesn't remember meeting himself (not necessarily an indicator of a timeline split, since he has no memory of Timeline B events anyway) and the established events recounted in "Five Years Gone" may or may not come to pass. We won't know until the finale whether or not Hiro's trip to the future nets any kind of significant change. If it does, then Timeline C kicks in with Hiro's return from 2012. If nothing changes, then we're still in Timeline B.


Good times, y'all. I heart time travel! I am working on the illustrated version of all this, complete with actual dates and stuff, but that needs me to have more time than I currently do so I can watch the series through again.


[1] Sylar may not have regenerative powers, but he has faster-than-normal healing and/or control over his body sufficient to heal quickly from injuries that Peter survived through absorption of Claire's powers which would otherwise have killed him and which ability also contributes to Sylar's ability to physically fake his own death.

[2] When future!Hiro returns to 2012, he cannot return to timeline A's 2012 because it has ceased to exist. My assumption is that because he's in 2007 when the split occurs, he is the sole retainer of memory for Timeline A and is exempt from the changes he brought about to create Timeline B. This would be why future!Hiro doesn't know that Claire is alive until Hiro tells him. 5YG!Peter clearly never tells future!Hiro that a) Claire is alive, b) Peter's the exploding man, c) that Sylar does not die in the explosion, and d) that Nathan lies about the person who caused the explosion. Why Peter doesn't tell him IS A GODDAMN MYSTERY OF STUPIDITY, but is possibly related to Peter's guilt at blowing up NYC and/or his desire to protect his family (Claire, Nathan) and/or some other mysterious reason like being dumber than Mohinder sometimes. If future!Hiro is right and Sylar is the exploding man in timeline A, then at least one major change is the shift from Sylar-as-exploding-man to Peter-as-exploding-man. If future!Hiro is *wrong* in his initial assumption -- that Sylar is the exploding man rather than Ted or Peter -- then he's working with incredibly bad information and the succesful saving of the cheerleader does not have a damn thing to do with saving the world. Further, if Sylar tastybrains Claire in Timeline A, there's nothing to say that he doesn't survive the explosion the way we know Peter does in Timeline B.

Yes, footnote 2 is INCREDIBLY LONG. The main difference between Timeline A and Timeline B is that future!Hiro delivers the message "save the cheerleader, save the world." We know it doesn't happen in Timeline A because future!Hiro doesn't remember it happening. Nor does future!Hiro remember meeting himself. So neither of those events -- unless he's been worked on by the Haitian -- occurs in Timeline A. Obviously they *do* occur in Timeline B and, equally obviously, our!Hiro knows that Claire is alive which future!Hiro does not. So, while the major events, motives, and people in both timelines are incredibly (outwardly) similar, they are two distinct and separate timelines split from the moment that future!Hiro meets Peter in the subway.

[3] Technically, I should branch off into Timeline C after the first iteration of Timeline B because Hiro jumps back to save Charlie and is in the picture when he wasn't before, but as he does not affect the timeline significantly -- he does not stop Sylar from killing Charlie, which we know because *Ando* remembers that she's killed and he is still present in the timeline when the change occurs. If Hiro had changed the timeline so that Charlie died of an aneurysm or tumor or whatever it is that she said was going to kill her instead of being tastybrained by Sylar, Ando wouldn't remember. So mostly I'm just going to ignore it. Just keep in mind that Timeline B runs through once until around 10/12/07, Hiro jumps back in time to 04/07 *and doesn't change the timeline*.

[4] Isaac and Simone are both present in Peter's vision of himself blowing up in NYC. Isaac is dead in both timelines, but not necessarily Simone. But by the events of 11/08/07 in timeline B, both Isaac and Simone are very very dead. Also, on the table in 1x02 is a page of one of the 9th Wonders comics: panel details include Hiro calling Japan, being told that it's 11/08/07, and Hiro seeing the explosion. In timeline B, I don't think this page is on the writing desk. Another changed detail, possibly indicating that Isaac *did not predict his own death in Timeline A*, is that his loft in 1x02 is filled with paintings of the helix symbol rather than the paintings predicting his death like those in 1x19. The gun he gets from Mr. Bennet is present in both timelines, strongly suggesting that Isaac and Mr. Bennet meet in both timelines. The comic Isaac shows the courier is "Hiro in the Future" and is the comic which future!Hiro has, and which future!Mohinder takes and follows when he takes out the Haitian.

Comments

[buddleia.livejournal.com]

This is very cool. *heartsyou* I have to watch every single episode all over again now. Oh, poor me.

[syrenssong.livejournal.com]

Crap!! Now I have to go back and rewatch. Which will be difficult as I have no episodes on tape. ::laugh:: My dad does, though. I think. I guess I know what I'm doing when I go visit him. Heroes marathon!

[enigel]

Awesome! It's so helpful to have it laid out like that! I commend your attention to detail.

But, wait (it's easy to nitpick when someone else has done all the work): in Timeline B, you say Hiro tries to kill Sylar.

But thing is, we don't have a Timeline B Hiro for that moment in time (which is a bit of a paradox, but it's to be expected when you mess with time). Hiro-who-went-back to deliver the Save the Cheerleader message belongs to Timeline A and, as you say (and I must thank you for making sense of that), he doesn't know the details of TB. Hiro-who-goes-to-the-future, our Hiro, belongs to Timeline B, but we don't know what he did yet, all we know is that Timeline B still resulted in an explosion and it was Peter who blew up.

So our Hiro may have to stabinate Peter (as this guy suggests: http://granades.com/2007/05/01/heroes-and-scruff/) before he reaches critical mass. Or, anything else can happen. It's Heroes, after all. ;)

[fanaddict.livejournal.com]

Awesome summary! I've been trying to remember if Peter first saw himself blowing up NYC before or after he saved Claire and gained her powers. He seems to have precog ability somewhat (not from Isaac since he had it in the first ep, so I'm thinking one of his parents...) so if he didn't see it until after he saved Claire that implies that he wasn't the original exploding man, but became that way. Which in turn implies that something about her regenerative abilities allows whoever absorbs her powers to reach the super-critical mass necessary for the explosion - maybe anyone else would have fried themselves and a building only or something.

It's interesting that in both timelines someone explodes and takes out half of NYC. I wonder if the writers are suggesting that the future is set and will reach a certain important event no matter what changes in the past (Charlie's death implies that also). Or if they really will allow the future to be changed - it's an interesting exercise one fate.

Speaking of Charlie, her death wasn't really important in the grand scheme of things so far unless it really was done to suggest the inevitability of the future. Or because Sylar ate her brain and somehow that will give him a brain tumor too... Personally I like the latter.

I don't know if stabbing Peter to prevent him from becoming explosive is the answer. I think keeping Claire dead or not allowing her to meet Peter or Sylar would make the difference, because it's her power combined with radioactive guy's power that seems to be the catalyst for explosion.

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

Thank you for providing this incredibly valuable service to fandom! ::gets all thinky::

[ladyjestyr.livejournal.com]

This is made of awesome. Also, my brain hurts. I can't work out if 5YG's Past changed in the middle of the episode or not. My thinking goes like this:

* Peter has a scar, so he never acquired Claire's regeneration power (or at least not until after the scar was created)
* Therefore, he didn't save her from Sylar at the Homecoming

However, she is clearly alive by the later part of the episode (and, uh, then dead again in short order). So - her being alive after all, was that true all along in 5YG and Future-Hiro just didn't know about it? Or is it an effect of his realisation that he needs to go back and tell Peter to save her; ie he decides to do this, so the telling of Peter becomes part of the past and live-Claire pops back into existence in the future, complete with a history of her own, because Hiro's alteration of the past makes this the way it's always been?

And did that make any sense at all?

[tieleen.livejournal.com]

Having the timelines laid out actually makes me even more confused.

So -- in timeline B, Peter exploded, then regenerated. But timeline A Hiro expected a living Peter, even though if, in his timeline, Peter never met Claire, he would have died in the explosion. There seem to be three more-obvious explanations for that:

1. Peter met someone else with regenerative powers in those few short weeks before the explosion. They could just do that for a plot device, no excuse, or go for the 'no matter what you do, time always/often heals itself' theory that Charlie might had been there to demonstrate.

2. Someone else exploded, either Ted or Syler... This could also work for the Time Heals Itself reason; whatever you do, the details will change but the picture stays the same. That makes me wonder, though -- if timelines A and B are pretty much identical, that means Syler is still president... which means Hiro never tried/managed to kill him... so does he not care that the obviously dangerous man he believes killed millions of people is still free somewhere? Or does he just not think, since Syler vanished, that he could have regenerated from the explosion?

Also, and I really never expect the show to answer that, why on earth not just go a little further back and kill Syler before he got so many powers? After he killed for the first time (that Hiro could find out about), say, to make it a bit less morally grey. If the purpose is to kill Syler, why not change *that*, before he ever got near Claire? (And obviously, while I can see Peter was the best candidate to do it, why on earth be so cryptic? But that one I *really* don't expect answered.)

(Also, the fact that, whoever actually exploded, it would be pretty obvious Ted was the source of the power, could explain -- in both timelines -- some of Parkman selling his soul so completely; he was the one who helped him break out, after all, and brought him to NYC -- and for the exact same reasons, it could explain Bennet's new line of business, in both its incarnations. He both brought the actually dangerous mutant out of custody and to where he could cause the most damage, and helped destroy the lives of non-dangerous ones through it.)

3. This seems to be the easiest one -- Peter got the power off Syler -- if that's possible for him. Does Peter just have the power to kill others for their powers now that he's met Syler, or does he also have all the powers Syler has? If it's the second, it should make that match in the hallway much more interesting; Peter has been hiding from the world for years while Syler was (one assumes) taking the powers of every mutant Bennet deemed dangerous enough to give to Parkman.

My biggest question now, though, is whether it was Nathan or Syler in Peter's vision. It doesn't have to be either -- the whole vision wasn't entirely true-to-life, obviously -- but claiming it was Syler who exploded seems to indicate he was there at the time, wearing his own face, plus Peter seemed to assume he was dead... and having Nathan's power could explain how he got away without being killed -- so maybe Peter's brother really was there just before the explosion, and who knows (given that Peter has to maintain the emo boy status) what exactly he said to him.

Time travel is *difficult*.

[celli]

"to tastybrain" is totally my new favorite verb. Awesome.

[rheanna27.livejournal.com]

This is excellent!

I had a really long day at work, so I'm not up to contributing anything useful to the timelines discussion. However "it all goes dystopic" is my new favourite phrase, and I fully intend to use it in conversation soon. ("Where's that report?" "I was going to do it, but everything went dystopic. Oh well."