PotC: Curse of the Black Pearl, part...damn. What part am I on? Part 4

[mimesere]

*snerk* So, Keith Richards has agreed to play Daddy Sparrow?  I guess that tips odds in favor of Bootstrap. Interesting.


*sneakily does picspam instead of writing*



I am just gonna quote latxcvi here 'cause she says it better than I can: "What Jack *wants* is his freedom.  Piracy and the consequences that flow from engaging in it is the price he pays to get that freedom.  In other words, Jack isn't a pirate because he's all 'Whoo hoo, piracy rocks!' His head isn't stuffed full of romantic notions of what piracy is the way Elizabeth's head is.  Jack is a pirate because that's the way he's able to be 'free.'  And the price he pays he pays for not having to follow anyone's rules but his own is the consequences that flow from being caught while engaging in acts of piracy.  Like, Elizabeth and Will are all 'It's wrong Jack should have to hang,' but I don't think *Jack* thinks that.  I mean, Jack doesn't want to die, but unlike Elizabeth and Will, Jack understands that *that was the risk he took* when he decided to be a pirate so he wouldn't have to abide by anyone's rules but his own.  'Cause an orderly society actually doesn't tolerate those who *won't* abide by its rules.  And Jack is smart enough about how the world works to understand that."

And you know, I have to agree with part of what ladyjaida said a while back, that Jack is a bloodless pirate.  'cause outright murder is not listed among his crimes and among the stories we hear about Jack, the most notable is that he sacked the Port of Nassau without firing a single shot.  So, you know.  Jack? Is not a *normal* pirate.  Normal pirates being, of course, the um, uncursed version of the Pearl's crew.  There's a *reason* Norrington calls them "vile and dissolute creatures" and why he's all gung ho to hang them.  Oh, go me! Brought it back to El Norrington.







This ladies and gentlemen, is the Dauntless.  Judging by the number of her gunports and her size, I'd say she's a 2nd or 3rd rate ship of the line which means...um.  *consults the page I made*  her complement is somewhere between 500 and 750 people (marines and seamen combined). 

*pervs on the ship*


Dude, note?  Jack's not tied up or imprisoned.  I'm sure he hasn't been given the right to wander the ship at will, but neither has Norrington *locked him up*.  (Which, you know, I would have.  But that's 'cause I'm a suspicious, cynical bitch).

Also, um, take a gander at Elizabeth's little outfit there.  Now, just for a second I'd like to poke large vicious holes in the theory that Norrington would, somehow, *stifle* Elizabeth.  Because you know what?  He's letting her run around a ship full of men in breeches in the 18th century.  That's really really not the action of a man who is gonna be all, "Stay home and have babies!"  Now, I'm sure someone can say, "Well, maybe Norrington didn't give her the clothes!"

And then I point and mock and laugh.  'Cause A) It's in the script that she asks *him* and he aquiesces to her request, B) It was actually *filmed* (see the gag reel), and C) It's also in the script that her headstrong and willful ways are WHAT HE LOVES ABOUT HER.  Norrington doesn't want to marry her because she's the only game in town, or the only suitable woman in Port Royal, or whatever other crack people come up with for that.  She's really not.  Go back and look at the promotion ceremony.  There are lots of women there he could marry.  Plus, unlike Elizabeth, his status as, well, a *man* means he can elevate a woman up to *his* class rather than being brought down to hers.  It sucks, but yo, that's how the world worked then. 

Anyway.  I'm digressing.  The point is that Norrington's well aware of who Elizabeth is and of her behavior and apparently? Is *fine* with it.  So, yeah.  Bite me stifle-y people.  Prove your point using the movie as your source.







Okay.  Let me quote here, because my *god* do I have issues.

Elizabeth: You didn't tell him about the curse.

Jack: I notice neither did you. Same reason, I imagine.

Elizabeth: He wouldn't have risked it.

Jack: (with a troublemaking smile) Could've gotten him drunk. Don't get me wrong, love. I admire a person who's willing to do whatever is necessary.

Elizabeth: You're a smart man, Jack. But I don't entirely trust you.

Jack waits a beat, then slowly walks over to her. Leans in, gesturing back and forth between them. We can see Norrington coming up in the background.

Jack: Peas in a pod, darling.

Now, look.  I really want to like Elizabeth.  I do.  She's all, you know, riotgrrl and take charge and intelligent.  So the part of me that generally goes, "You must like the girl character because she's a girl!" wants to be all, "Yay Elizabeth!"  But I'm not.  And I'm going to lay out in excruciating detail why this scene makes me, as I said, want to stab her in the eye with a rusty nail. 

Point 1:
Elizabeth: You didn't tell him about the curse.

Jack: I notice neither did you. Same reason, I imagine.

Elizabeth: He wouldn't have risked it.

I've said before that I understand full well that Elizabeth loves Will.  I also understand that love makes you do the wacky.  But you know what? I DON'T CARE.  I don't.  I absolutely do not give a flying rat's *ass* about True Love when it affects anyone besides the two (or more) people in question.  And Elizabeth's big shiny True Love for Will is affecting not only Norrington, but through him, every last person on the Dauntless.  Now, even assuming that the Dauntless doesn't sail out of Port Royal with a full complement, I'm still gonna say that there's *at least* 100 people on that ship including Elizabeth, Elizabeth's father, and a bunch of people who don't give a crap about Will Turner. 

And you know what else?  The curse is a GODDAMN VITAL BIT OF INFORMATION.  It's not like the thing they're not telling Norrington is, "Oh, they've really got 200 men, and not the 100 you're thinking."  The thing Norrington's not being told is that the pirates cannot die.  That's not a trifle. That's not an annoyance.  That's something that he needs to know.  Because then he can plan accordingly. 

"He wouldn't have risked it."  Well, okay, A) She doesn't know that because she didn't tell him and B) SO FUCKING WHAT?  Norrington would have been entirely within his rights to say, "Wait, you want me to take my ship in and fight pirates who cannot die to save one person?  And how, exactly, am I supposed to win against people who *can't die*?  So sorry, darling, but that's INSANE.  We're going home."

I grant you, she's young.  She's in love.  She's going to make stupid decisions.  And I'm sure she's not even thinking about what not telling Norrington means for him and his men. 

You know what though?  I don't care.  Self interest and ignorance doesn't make that choice better.  'cause seriously, what was she expecting Norrington to do? 

*breathing deeply*  Okay.  calm. 
Basically, my point is the question: Is Will Turner's life worth more than anyone else's?

And for Elizabeth, the answer is apparently yes.  She loves him.  That's totally understandable.

But dude.  The (at least) ten people who die on the Dauntless because they can't kill the unkillable pirates?  I betcha someone thought *their* life was worth more than some random apprentice blacksmith who had the gall to steal a ship of His Majesty's Navy.

But Sheila, you can say, why aren't you pissed off about Jack not telling Norrington the same thing?  That's kind of a double standard, yo.

actually?  It's not.  'cause Jack is a *pirate*.  Also, Jack has not JUST AGREED TO MARRY NORRINGTON.

*seethes*

Jack doesn't have an obligation to tell Norrington anything.  Also?  Jack is a pirate.  There's not a single reason Norrington would trust anything he said *anyway*.  This point comes up again in a bit.  Elizabeth OTOH?  Kind of has an obligation to not get Norrington *killed*.  And also?  Norrington is not doing Jack a *favor*.  He is doing one for Elizabeth.

*seethes some more*

Point Two:
Jack: (with a troublemaking smile) Could've gotten him drunk. Don't get me wrong, love. I admire a person who's willing to do whatever is necessary.

Elizabeth: You're a smart man, Jack. But I don't entirely trust you.

Okay, Elizabeth?  WHAT THE FUCK?!?  Seriously.  What. The. Fuck? 

(apparently, no, I can't do this without swearing)

SHE doesn't trust JACK?  What the fucking fuck?  Where the *hell* does she get off with that when she's DOING THE SAME THING?  Like, what kind of fucking self-righteous bullshit is *that*?  (the same thing, in this case, is that they're both "willing to do whatever is necessary")  And if anyone brings up True Love...I will just.  Go ballistic.

Dude, I'm way not reasonable on this point.  Like, at all.  I know and admit this.  That doesn't change the fact that I see it as essentially FUCKTARDED and WRONG.

Also?  Jack *has a plan*.  Elizabeth?  Not so much.

*stab stab stab stab*

Point three:

Jack: Peas in a pod, darling.

Now, I've always, *always* taken this line to be that Jack was saying, "I think you're a smart woman, but I don't entirely trust you."  And subtextually saying, "We are both willing to do whatever it takes to get what we want" and therefore explicitly linking them the way that Norrington and Will are linked.  Which, you know, big YAY! for sparrington.  'cause if Will and Elizabeth are all True Love-y, then so are their doubles.  YAY! 

*grumbles crankily at Elizabeth*

I mean, it basically comes down to the idea that I think Elizabeth has an obligation toward Norrington that Jack does not.  And the fact that they behave exactly the same WRT that frosts my *ass*.

Let me put it this way: for those of you that watched BtVS in the day?  I've had a passionate hate on for Willow since she kissed Xander and got off on it.  This was in season 3.  Four years later?  It *still* pisses me off, and NO ONE DIED BECAUSE OF IT.  So, really?  I'm not gonna get past this one any time soon.






Every time I see this cap, I think of monkeycrackmary's icon of it that had the text, "I'm in the market, as it were."  And then I giggle and the *entire scene* is redeemed.


Pretty!

*adjusts tinhat*  Ahem.  *suggestively* Jack's compass doesn't point north.  Nudge nudge, wink wink. 



But wait! Who's that holding the compass?



Just sayin'.


AHAHAHA  Will in a cage!


No personal space bubble for Jack and Norrington!  Woo!


Still no bubble!


Look! Jack got Norrington to smile!  Now, I grant you, it's kind of a scoff-y smile, 'cause the line he smiles on is Jack saying, "Now, to be honest..." but still! It's a smile!


I just like this one.  And his little smirk!  *chortle*


That one's just pretty, yo.

Though, okay.  NOW she's all, "They can't die! You have to tell them!" ?  WTF?  They're already *gone* sweetheart.  That's way too little, *way* too late.

Still.  She tried.  I suppose that counts for something.

...Nope.  Still mad.


Awww! lobsters!


AHAHAHAHA.  I *love* snarkybitch!Norrington.  looooooove him.

This is, I suppose, as good a place as any to get into one of the things that's been um, pissing me off for months now.  And this thing is the idea that if Norrington had just done what Jack said, everything would be okay.

I grant the point.  Yes.  If Norrington had done as Jack said, then things would probably have turned out okay.  And I give Jack the mad props for coming up with a plan that wouldn't get the sailors and soldiers on the Dauntless killed.

The tiny, inconsequential, itty bitty problem with this?  Norrington has no reason *at all* to trust *anything* that comes out of Jack Sparrow's mouth. In fact? Norrington has a really, really, really good reason to not trust Jack.  Because, you know, Jack STOLE HIS SHIP.

And what reason does Norrington give for his actions here?  "Because it was Mr. Sparrow who said it."

Let's also not forget that Norrington does not have the same information that the audience has, thanks to both his erstwhile fiancee and Jack.  So please, tell me, why on earth Norrington should have just blithely done what it was that Mr. Sparrow said?  'cause me?  I'm kind of applauding Norrington for using his brain.  And gee, maybe if he'd known that the pirates *couldn't die* he would have gone with Jack's plan.  But we'll never know, will we?

latxcvi says: "And if Norrington *had* blithely trusted a pirate who then turned around and *double-crossed* him at the expense of his ship and crew, you better believe the *Royal Navy* wouldn't have been all, 'Oh, well the *pirate* told you to.  Right-o, then.'"

Moving on!




One of the best visuals in the movie.  *hearts*


WTF? face #1


WTF? face #2


Norrington will FUCK YOUR SHIT UP.  booyah!
(and his calves and thighs are really nice, too!)


"...oh *shit*!"

Seriously, though, this is where some intrepid (and ultimately dead) person on the Dauntless rang the watch bell to get the boats to come back.  Now, by this point?  At *least* 3 people have died on the Dauntless.  3 people! Dead 'cause of Will.  At least two more die, and I counted something like 12-15 deaths and/or serious injuries during the entirety of what we're shown of the battle.  So, you know? There's collateral damage.


He's a man of action.  He's a man of danger.


I...somehow don't think this is in sequence.  But whatever.  Pretty!


Awwww! Governor Swann!


And this is why Ted&Terry were all, "Um, the Dauntless would reduce pretty much any pirate ship to toothpicks on the water.


Woo!  Kick some ass boys!


I never did understand where the idea that Norrington's a big weenie comes from either.  Asshats, I suppose.  'Cause you know?  He's going to go fuck some shit up! 

Also, I didn't upload this cap, but the Best! Thing! Ever! about the beginning of the Dauntless battle?  Norrington hops over the railing, doesn't hesitate a *second* at the walking skeletons, shoots Koehler in the *heart*, drops his pistol, yanks out his sword and then...


Is all, "Break me off a switch, son, there's gonna be an ass whuppin'!"

I'd also like to point out that Koehler?  Badass enough to *sass Barbossa*.  *That's* whose ass Norrington is kicking. 


Awwww! Lobsters!






*giggle*


Pretty.  I really wish he did it for me.  But he doesn't.


He, OTOH, does it for me a *lot*.


Pretty.

I'm sorry.  I'd comment, but...I don't really care.

*hides*


Heee.  Hehehehehehe.

*chortle*

Hand!


*chortling more*


I have neglected the Geoffrey Rush love! Bad me!

Geoffrey Rush is a *god*.

That is all.


Poor Jack.  Barbossa's making a liar of him. 


AHAHAHAHA.  *hearts Geoffrey Rush*  "Yeah?  Wanna make something of it poncey boy?"


Pretty! Plus it reminds me of the caves on the ride.  I heart the ride.  I wanna go on the ride right *now*.


AHAHAHAHAHA. 

Yeah.  They're *pirates*, honey.  What were *you* expecting?


Pirates!


Seriously, though.  Did she think they'd give a shit about Will?  'cause you know...they're *pirates*.  And Will was demonstrably a dumbass.  And also left their captain to die.  And lied about it.

Elizabeth, darling, in the movie, no one but you thinks that Will's life is worth a sack of hammers. 


Gibbs! Anamaria!


Jack will fuck your shit up!


So will Barbossa!


Preeeeetty.  Sorta.








Explain to me how Norrington's a weenie again?  Or unable to hold his own against Jack?

Yeah.  S'what I thought.

(also, everytime I look at that cap of Norrington, I think of monkeycrackmary, and "I will cutchoo!"

*snickering*

God, I love Norrington and Jack.  So much.


Preeeeeetty.






Now I kind of wish that I had capped a few more things, but I want y'all to note the blood on Norrington's sword. 

In a movie that involves blood sacrifices and piracy and battles and has lots of swords, I think it's really interesting that we only see actual blood four times (or at least, that our attention is deliberately called to the blood four times).  Once on Elizabeth's hand, once on the coin itself, once on Barbossa's chest, and this last time on Norrington's sword.

Bear with me a sec while I try to suss out where I'm going with this...

Okay.  Hm.

Well, first of all, I'm gonna quote something monkeycrackmary said back when I posted the Hallelujah vid, 'cause her brain is shiny and I heart it.

"...the attack on the Dauntless really really is horrible and inside the cave there's the big swashbuckling revenge-fight with the wisecracking and the one-liners and the sassiness and meanwhile pirates are slaughtering the navy. And so Jack gets his moment of triumph, but that same moment is something else up on the ship and Norrington's sword is all bloody and there's no gloating or victory in his eyes, just fear and sadness"

'cause, you know, it's true.  There *is* a difference between what happens in the cave and what happens on the ship, and a lot of it is that the entire movie spends its time getting the audience to invest in Jack, Will, and Elizabeth and they're all in the cave.  Governor Swann's fight against the undead arm is played for laughs, and so we're left with The Navy vs The Undead and despite the actual *human cost* of that battle, it's not played for actual importance.  And yet, it's there and it's emphasized with the blood on Norrington's sword.  At the very least, it's important for *Norrington*.

But back to the 4 instances thing.  I can try to tie it up under the thematic heading of sacrifice.  One in which nothing of value is actually lost (Elizabeth), the demand for it (the blood on the coin), appeasement of the gods (Barbossa), and an actual sacrifice of life/lives (Norrington).  And some of that, I think, is actually there.  Like.  The cut on Elizabeth's hand is trivial enough to get her to say, "That's it?"

I don't know.  My head aches.  I've been doing this for like, seriously now, 5 hours in between writing stuff.  So much with the head pain.





Awww! Lobsters!

Dude, I heart Murtogg and Mullroy. They're all cute!  and non-separable!


Yes.  Yes.  Will/Elizabeth 4evah omg.  I'm sorry.  It's just...I'm still stuck on how many people had to die to save Will.


Poor Jack.  His ship's made off without him.  And now he has to hang! Or, you know, go hide on the island or something. 



The next, and last, post is much less ranty.

Comments

[greenabsinthe.livejournal.com]

Again, I heart you ever so much for doing this.

The whole idea of Elizabeth sacrificing so many people's lives to save Will has always bothered me, even though I love her character in general. Having seen all the cut scenes, I understand why a lot of the Elizabeth ones were cut: She comes off as a selfish, manipulative bitch. Not only does she rip out poor Norrington's heart and stomp on it with her pretty little heels, but she causes the death of over a dozen men, not to mention the fact that she does't seem to care until it's too late.

Also, her and Jack? Two peas in a pod indeed. Both of them are selfish when it comes to the object of their love (Jack and the Pearl, Elizabeth has Will) and while I think not telling Norrington about the curse was dumb, I can't help but see their logic.

The blood on the sword...the first time I saw the fight on the Dauntless, I was certain Norrington was going to die. I was certain, because I couldn't imagine Elizabeth being so cruel as to break her promise to Norrington. The whole scene was underplayed--moreso for the rating, I think, than the intent behind it. I honestly think that more men died on the Dauntless than we see (I know some people swear Groves is one of them, but I haven't watched the movie close enough to see if I can find him in any of the scenes)

I would blabber more, but I'm too tired to think straight. I'm really enjoying hearing your thoughts on the movie. It gives me a chance to re-think some of my own opinions and glean new insights into the movie, which make it that much more fun to watch.

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

Like I (think) I said somewhere else in all this, Keira said flat out that the deleted scenes make her look horrible, and she's not wrong on that.

I can *see* the logic, but I can't accept it, if that makes sense. Yes, it's entirely possible that Norrington would have just said, "They can't die? Bollocks to *that*, sweetheart," and gone home. And by skewing it the way she does, people end up dead that otherwise would not have, and that's...upsetting. And more than that? I don't see anything in the movie to suggest that it occurs to her *after*, and that makes it worse.

And yeah, when I first saw the battle on the Dauntless, I was almost certain that Norrington was dead. Like, he was the Sympathetic Character Who Had To Die to Prove How Serious It Was. Only...it wasn't serious.

Aagh. I have lots of thoughts. Some of them make more sense than others.

Blood Significance

[forensicgirl.livejournal.com]

Okay, here goes. It's after 1 AM here, so hopefully this makes sense.

You can also look at the blood in terms of win/victory/gain vs loss.
Elizabeth: Loss for the curse-ees, gain for her. She lives, they don't live. Or die.

The coin-mostly gain. The pirates are no longer cursed (good) and Jack & Will (et al) are still alive (good).

Barbossa-He is now mortal and can die-in fact he is dying-which menas a release from the curse but an end to his life. It also means closure for Jack. And safety for the Navy guys. So again, gain and loss, but mostly gain.

Finally, the blood on Norrington's sword represent his victory over the pirates-gain. But it also represents those who were killed in the battle, on both sides, and maybe the prior victims of the evil pirates. And it means Norrington is one step closer to facing the reality that Elizabeth doesn't love him, and, in fact, has just used his love to get him to rescue Will.

Okay, I think that's it. Anyone have any other thoughts?

Re: Blood Significance

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

Yay for thoughts!

Man, that's all I got. I'm so braindead.

[thefakeheadline.livejournal.com]

*stares* *So* much pretty. I really want to rewatch the whole movie, right now.

And, er, hi! Just friended you and wanted to say hi - and yay for pirates and commodores and Wes/Gunn!

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

Oh dude. I *heart* your icon. *stares happily*

And yes! Yay for pirates and commodores and Wes/Gunn! They are all very happy things.

[isabeau.livejournal.com]

mmm, picspam.

Also, the cap with Norrington and the compass? Right under Jack's compass doesn't point north. Nudge nudge, wink wink.? Backs up my nice delicious theory, which is that the compass points towards whatever the person using it desires. Jack can use it to get to the Isla de Muerta originally because that's what he wants; he can use it, in the movie, to get to the Pearl (which happens at that point to be at the IdM) because that's what he wants. And Norrington? Holds it, and it points at Jack.

Okay. Couplea points, or more like rambles.

Elizabeth and the not-telling-Norrington. Which is so much more grrrful with the cut scene in, because it's her /deliberately/ not telling him-- and her quick turnaround (with the desperate "OMG I need to tell him!!!111") doesn't make so much sense. But with the movie as it is? She still should have told him. Sooner. Even if it was a manipulative "Hey, you've given your word, so you're not going to back out, but you should probably know..." thing, playing on his whole honor thing to keep him in the game once he'd said yes.

The bit about 10+ people dying essentially to save Will... pisses me the fuck off. Mainly because I don't think Will's worth saving (*snicker*), but also because he's not worth that many men, including the Navy training and stuff. And I wonder if he or Elizabeth ever realizes the trade-off.

Probably not. Especially because Will is clueless as a turnip; and Elizabeth is in the "gosh the sun revolves around him" stage of moonfaced love where Will is more important than ANYTHING (including, apparently, Norrington, who could easily have died, and probably would have eventually if the curse hadn't been lifted). Hence her bafflement when the really awesome logic of "Will is in that cave! We must save him!" fails, for pirates who wouldn't give a flying fuck about Will (hell, they stick to the Code for /Jack/, who's a pirate and their captain; why should they risk themselves or their lives for some whelp who only matters to Barbossa&co. because of who his father was?)

And back to the shallowness: <3 the WTF faces. And, well, any picture of Norrington.

And I adore Murtogg&Mullroy.

And Jack.

And Norrington. I mentioned that, right?

And Geoffrey Rush, who is, as you say, a complete god (and it is /so/ clear that he was having tons of fun with this. His "Arrrr", when Elizabeth's trying to stab him with a dinner knife, never fails to make me giggle madly.

And Norrington. Mmmm, Norrington.

[latxcvi.livejournal.com]

Elizabeth and the not-telling-Norrington. Which is so much more grrrful with the cut scene in, because it's her /deliberately/ not telling him-- and her quick turnaround (with the desperate "OMG I need to tell him!!!111") doesn't make so much sense. But with the movie as it is? She still should have told him. Sooner. Even if it was a manipulative "Hey, you've given your word, so you're not going to back out, but you should probably know..." thing, playing on his whole honor thing to keep him in the game once he'd said yes.

Oh, definitely. Elizabeth could have totally played on Norrington's sense of honor and the fact that he gave his word to keep him to the agreement to go to Isla de Muerta even if he thought the business about undead pirates was wacky. So, yeah, that'e just one more thing that makes me "Grr," about the scene.

But I really, really don't get why it takes Elizabeth - who is supposed to be and is a smart character - until Norrington orders her sequestered for her safety to realize that he and his men are GOING INTO BATTLE with the cursed crew of the Pearl. I mean, just ... She's *seen* that crew in action; she watched them blow the Interceptor to smithereens *just because they could*. What did she think was going to happen when the Navy got to IdM? Norrington would offer Barbossa tea and ask for Will and that would be the end of it? She *had* to know/should have known a fight was forthcoming. And if she could figure out when that realization hit her in the movie that Norrington needed to know about the curse, then she fucking should have known he deserved to know the truth when she *accepted his proposal*.

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

Geoffrey Rush did "Arrrr!" a couple times, and it was funny every single time.

And I wonder if he or Elizabeth ever realizes the trade-off.

I want, very very badly, to believe that they do. But...I don't know. Like, I always find Barbossa's line of being punished disproportionate to their crimes to be really...ironic, given how little in the way of fallout there is for anyone (er, except Norrington and Barbossa and the undead pirates).

[sharpest_rose.livejournal.com]

Norrington hops over the railing, doesn't hesitate a *second* at the walking skeletons, shoots Koehler in the *heart*, drops his pistol, yanks out his sword and then...

God, I love that bit. I wish there was a Norrington Movie. Or a series of movies, like Indiana Jones only with a pragmatic and noble sensibility as to the realities of the world in which the hero lives in. And the foil for the series would be a sass-talkin' pirate with a heart mouthfull of gold and a sexy walk. There would be screwball banter and world-savin'.

Uh, I like Norrington a lot. It makes me babble. A postition I suspect you sympathise with, in a coherent sort of way.

I wish I still had that icon! I tried to find it on my HD but it's like looking for.. a small file in a big computer.

bwahaha lobsters. I am cracking up here. You deserve strawberries.

Aww! Now I have a need to go watch the movie and wish I could form clever thoughts about it.

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

You should totally formulate a brilliant theory on the symbolic use of blood.

'cause man, I couldn't come up with *anything*.

also, I heart you. Like, oodles and oodles.

my brain is all owie, or I'd be more coherent. *mwah*

By local ordinance, all shit must be fucked up.

[juniper200.livejournal.com]

"Peas in a pod, love" = "Bitch, I trust you as far as you can fly."

I totally second the opinion that cuts were made in order to save some face for Elizabeth. As she stands in the final cut, she's a pirate in skirts. Put the deleted scenes back in, and she's a bitch with an agenda.

latxcvi's ideas about freedom and concequences are genius. There was this feeling I had about the character that I couldn't articulate, and that's it! I smoo you both.

Re: By local ordinance, all shit must be fucked up.

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

"Peas in a pod, love" = "Bitch, I trust you as far as you can fly."

*dies laughing* It's funny, 'cause it's *true*.

latxcvi's ideas about freedom and concequences are genius.

Aren't they just? *hearts*

love the pics and caps

[(Anonymous)]

Just wanted to say how much I like to see people who appreciate Norrington. You've commented very nicely on some of the aspects of the good Commodore, and Jack, for that matter. The Navy paid a price for going up against the undead pirates and that's never acknowledged in the movie, guess it would up the ratings or some such nonsense. Norrington would have to deal with his own dead as well as bring the not-undead pirates to justice and that would hurt someone like him deeply, even though he knows they had to be stopped. Can't say I'm a big Will/Elizabeth fan, much prefer the depths to Jack and Norrington. Back to lurking now.
Rennie

Re: love the pics and caps

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

The rating issue is true enough, and I can accept the supertext for it, but...I keep feeling like there should be some acknowledgment of what happened there and I don't think there will be.

Ah well. T'is what fic is for.

[softplaces.livejournal.com]

Aye to everything said about Elizabeth. Which is why the Will/Elizabeth romance sickens me so much. It embodies selfishness and ignorance.

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

Honestly? I mostly just ignore Will/Elizabeth. Which is bad of me, but it prevents me from getting angry a lot. And therefore is really a *good* thing, I feel.

Maybe they'll grow out of it! That's a happy thought.

...but not as happy as a Norrington thought.

*loves on your icon*

[bathsweaver.livejournal.com]

Loving these, so, SO much.

Elizabeth and Will are all 'It's wrong Jack should have to hang,' but I don't think *Jack* thinks that. I mean, Jack doesn't want to die, but unlike Elizabeth and Will, Jack understands that *that was the risk he took* when he decided to be a pirate so he wouldn't have to abide by anyone's rules but his own...Jack is smart enough about how the world works to understand that."

One of the things I love about the scene where they're reading Jack's sentence is the look of absolute *boredom* on his face. Which is done for the funny, I think; but it also is a part of what you're saying here. Jack's not outraged, or afraid, repentant, or even scared--he accepted that this was one of the consequences if he ever got caught a long time ago, and typically, you can imagine him pleading whatever dieties he acknowledges that they'd just *get the pomp over with* so that the party can start.

That's all I have to say--wish it could have been deep. After work I'm going to have to come back and reread what everyone else has said. All your commenters are so smart has such interesting things to say. Thank you so much for doing these, again.

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

One of the things I love about the scene where they're reading Jack's sentence is the look of absolute *boredom* on his face. Which is done for the funny, I think; but it also is a part of what you're saying here. Jack's not outraged, or afraid, repentant, or even scared--he accepted that this was one of the consequences if he ever got caught a long time ago, and typically, you can imagine him pleading whatever dieties he acknowledges that they'd just *get the pomp over with* so that the party can start.

Heeee. Yes. I get to that in the next part. Which um. Might be tonight or might be...not tonight.

Like...yes. I think Jack wants to be not dead. And to that end, he has no problem with taking advantage of whatever to escape or talk his way out of things. But once caught? I don't think he's going to be all, "I don't deserve this! Aaaah! I am innocent!" 'cause well. That'd be a big honking lie.

[cyprinella]

So I have to wonder if running through Elizabeth's was a [perhaps not so] little tiny thread of "hopefully the pirates will kill him so I don't have to marry him and don't look like a total tramp by dumping him for the blacksmith."

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

My lord, I hope not. I'd *despise* her.

I mean, as it stands now, I'm not too happy with her, but I can pretend I never saw the deleted scenes and then it's not so bad.

[broken--wingz.livejournal.com]

Okay, Elizabeth? WHAT THE FUCK?!? Seriously. What. The. Fuck?


Do you know how many times I have thought this? Especially at the end. SHES SO DUMB. Grrr.

Anyway, great commentary as usual!

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

*giggle* It's sometimes very hard for me not to say that out loud as I'm watching the movie. Because dude, seriously. What bizarre mindset prompts what she does? It's all puzzling.

Indeed...

[red-rahl.livejournal.com]

Again, you all blow me away with your powers of deduction. I am loving this thread and so feeling the Norrington love that my sister is looking at me all funny.

I remember, in my first watching of the movie, that at the Dauntless battle scene, my heart had already been clenching in my chest as I saw the pirates coming toward the ship from underneath and sneaking a board. All I could think of was "No!!! My boys!!!" (I heart the Navy boys!!!)

Thinking back, I remember that after my first viewing of the movie, I didn't like it much (except for the Johnny Depp factor. Sadly, it would take a few more viewings and some judicious Jj fics to bring me around and experience an honest-to-heaven epiphany about the wonder that is Norrington/JackDav).

Anyhoo, I realize now why I had been dissatisfied. It wasn't because of the Pirate Captain or the Commodore or the undead pirate or any of the secondary/tertiary characters. It was because of Will and Elizabeth, the two main characters that we were suppose to identify with and emotionally invest in. When Will backstabbed Jack back in the cave, I was thinking "That's not right!" And with Elizabeth with Norrington? "Still not right!"

Now, I can see that I hadn't glommed onto the movie at first because the two main characters had succeeded in totally turning me off. I love PotC now with all my hobbit being because of the *other* characters in the movie (especially Jack and James).

Loved the compass pointing remark and especially love the theory put forth that the compass points to what you most desire!!! ^_^

I wish I could add something intelligent...like about the blood. The Aztecs, of course, believed that the blood was needed as a sacrifice because it was the gods who had first sacrificed their blood in order to create life.

Still, I have never understood why it is that Bootstrap Bill's blood was what was needed to undo the curse. Seriously, I don't have a single clue as to why that is? I've always put it down as "Major Loophole" and went on my merry way.

Re: Indeed...

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

Still, I have never understood why it is that Bootstrap Bill's blood was what was needed to undo the curse.

I always assumed it's because he took a coin from the chest. They had to return all the coins and pay a blood sacrifice. They had Bill's coin, and the sacrifice in the body of Will.

Also? unless Bill is as dumb as his son occasionally is, he's wandering around the world and suddenly not undead anymore.

[futureperfect.livejournal.com]

Also, I didn't upload this cap, but the Best! Thing! Ever! about the beginning of the Dauntless battle? Norrington hops over the railing, doesn't hesitate a *second* at the walking skeletons, shoots Koehler in the *heart*, drops his pistol, yanks out his sword and then...

I just go into spams of fangirly love when Norrington shoots Koehler. I think it's something about his pose. The cant of his hips. Something!! I go squee and then die of pretty!!

These posts are GREAT.omg

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

I do actually have a screencap of Norrington's sassy pose while he's shooting Koehler and dude, it's the funniest thing ever, because it *is* in the cant of his hips. I giggle at it a lot.

And I'm glad you're enjoying the posts.

[kattahj.livejournal.com]

I grant the point. Yes. If Norrington had done as Jack said, then things would probably have turned out okay.

I'm not so sure about that. As I understand it, Jack's plan was that the pirates would row out to the Dauntless, and the Navy would be prepared and blow them to pieces. They'd still be alive, but alive and in pieces, which makes fighting difficult, and Jack and Will would have plenty of time to undo the curse.

Norrington leaving the ship spoils that plan, but so does the pirates walking up to the ship instead of rowing - the Navy boys don't notice them until it's already too late to blow them into pieces.

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

My figuring on that is that at least there would have been more soldiers on the Dauntless to fight the pirates. But...yeah. I have just massive issues with the argument that Norrington should just have done what Jack said. I do feel like that's a lot of the reason behind Jack's unhappy expression when Barbossa orders the pirates to take a walk, since it renders his plan useless and also makes a liar of him.

And heh. I was trying to be fair to the crazypeople.

[fivil.livejournal.com]

Me? Loving these an insane amount. The ranting (&the numerous points made during ranting!) & the squee-age & the Norringtonness.
And the pictures.

It's all so good.

It's just...I'm still stuck on how many people had to die to save Will.
Eh, exactly. Doesn't add to my liking of the character.

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

*g* Gladness.

And I'm trying, again, to work through most of my Will issues. So far, I've been succesful, because I've reminded myself that the "cool" Will of fanon is not, in fact, the Will I'm presented with in the movie and that makes me feel a lot better.

I find I'm much more forgiving of a big goober than a deliberate wanker.

[strangemuses.livejournal.com]

Hello. I followed a couple of PotC-related links back to your journal and read your comments about the movie. Your comments are some of the most insightful that I've read in quite a while. I adore Norrington to bits. I've never understood fans who see him as either a 'villain' simply because he represents law and order, or who see him as some sort of laughable stooge. He's one of the three most competent characters in the film -- as I count them at any rate (the three being Jack, Norrinton, and Barbossa). I don't personally go so far as to see any romantic underpinnings to the Sparrow/Norrington relationship, but that's only because I don't actually see Jack Sparrow with *anyone.* That's just my view, though.

I've friended you. Hope you don't mind.

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

I don't mind at all.

And...word to the competency thing, man. Norrington's not a fool, nor is he hapless or helpless or anything like it. And it kind of makes me mad when people ignore the canon in favor of some bizarre and ingrained idea of The Authority Figure or whatnot as presented by the media. 'cause grr, dude. I'd rather have laws than not and people to uphold those laws than everyone being a criminal and it makes me mad when people are dismissive of that because of romantic nonsense about the role of the rebel and oh, there is *so* a rant on this building up.

[quixotic-sense.livejournal.com]

Hi! I found your PotC commentary/picspam via a roundabout route I can't quite remember (too... many... windows... open!) and yay! Norrington-centric PotC commentary! I love Norrington. And Jack Davenport, ever since a friend of mine convinced me to watch Ultraviolet some years ago. :D

Would you mind if I make a couple of icons using your screencaps? I'll post them here in a comment so you can see what I did. If you like. *grins*

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

*g* Roundabout is usually the most entertaining way to find something. And yay for Ultraviolet!

And please do! Make icons! I heart icons and that's a large part of why I'm doing the picspam. I capped the movie like a crazyperson and it seemed wrong not to share :)

[latxcvi.livejournal.com]

You really, really, really need to finish this series by capping the hanging and wrapping everything up in the big, shiny bow of "Why, Yes, Virginia, James Norrington Totally R0xx0rs."

I'm just sayin'.

[donella.livejournal.com]

Have just read the entire pic-spam and am now in love with you. Seriously. Well, not seriously, cause I'm all in love with the boys and such, but...Anyways. Put my all my thoughts about the movies and about James into print. You are just so cool. Really. I looked at the rest of your journal and omg you are going to be at the Lady Washington thing that I am begging the parental units to take me to. Aw jeebus, I sound like a stalker, don't I? I'm not, I just respect you and think you are cool beyond words...*small voice* May I friend you?

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

I apologize profusely for taking so long to get back to you on this one.

But thank you :) And yes, of course, you may friend if you like.

I've got the icon making itch...

[ducttapeofdoom.livejournal.com]

I've got to ask is there a part 5 because this wasn't the end of the movie.

But if I wasn't already in love with Norrington, I believe I would have fallen in love with him all over again after seeing this. *flails* So pretty!

I realize that I'm replying to this like 2 years after you posted this, but I just had to say it. If you've done a picspam of Norrie from the second movie I will love you forever.

*goes off to save screencaps*

Re: I've got the icon making itch...

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

Sadly I never did a part 5 or a DMC picspam. I think if I just keep pretending hard enough, I can make the sequels never have happened (and I *liked* DMC: The Norrington Movie. But it all relied on a payoff in AWE that just didn't happen. Woe.)