a fannish thing that is kind of bugging me

[mimesere]

where by "kind of," I mean, "it fills me with rage such that I cannot even see straight."

Look, I get that fannishly we do ficathons for a couple reasons. Gift exchanges, remix, kinks, etc. There is a huge amount of awesome fic that came out of the choc_fic characters of color ficathon and the Femslash ficathon is always awesome.

But.

You shouldn't need a ficathon to make you write about women and people of color. You shouldn't. Full stop. For me, the whole point has *always* been that there are amazingly fantastically interesting and wonderful women and characters of color *no matter what your personal character types are* and that there should be fic because they are at least as amazingly fantastically interesting and wonderful as white male characters. It shouldn't be a political statement, it should be an expression of love/interest in the characters.

I understand that these ficathons exist to drum up more fic/fannish product and that they're important and serve a function, but they shouldn't *have* to exist. Like, doesn't anyone else find it kind of hinky that these ficathons roll around and people write fic and then are like, "Well, I've done my good minority deed for the year," and then don't write any other fic?

Also, while I am on the subject? It is *great* to be talking about the problematic portrayals of women and people of color in the media. You know what would be EVEN MORE GREAT? Talking about the things that are done *right*. You want to talk about how Heroes is problematic with how they treat DL? I damn well want to hear about how awesome it is that Heroes *explicitly* took the black deadbeat dad stereotype and said, "HA HA NO." I want to hear about Heroes talked about the difficulties of an interracial marriage and how it brought up the concept of passing. I want to hear about how it is awesome that Heroes said, "Hey, you know who one of our gateway characters should be? A Japanese guy." I want to hear about how Linderman's right hand woman is Ms. Sakamoto and how Nathan's campaign manager is black. I want to hear about how it is awesome that the people of color on this show are the ones who are all, "Hey, you know what would be cool? Using our powers to HELP PEOPLE."

So tell me the interesting things. Write me fic about it. Tell me about how Teyla and Ronon are wonderful, because they are. Tell me about *Wallace*, who showed how Veronica Mars was wrong about the class divisions in Neptune. Tell me about Cristina and Bailey and Callie and Chief. Tell me about how Gunn's storyline is Angel's storyline in all the ways about what the cost of the greater good is and how you can go to the beige place and fight the good fight but WITHOUT THE MASSIVE DOUCHITUDE. Tell me about Wang and Damphousse. Tell me about Mr. X. Tell me about John Stewart GL and how it is amazingly fantastically awesome that Bruce and Diana hid out in a Middle Eastern restaurant when the aliens invaded. Tell me that. Tell me about Ben on Reaper and how he's the one who is the nice guy and who keeps bringing up the issue of free will in terms of the contract with the Devil. Tell me about Morgan and Anna on Chuck. Tell me about how fantastic Emerson is on Pushing Daisies. Hell, I don't even like Who, but tell me about Martha. Tell me the things you *like* about the people of color and the women, 'cause otherwise I'm just left wondering if you see them as interesting people or just as problems for you to fix.

Like, not to get all personal here, except for how I clearly am going to, but every time I read about Oh Noes, the Problematic Treatment of Race and Gender on TV/Comics/Movies/Etc, I just get more depressed. Not because those problems exist -- because they do and I'm not that much in denial -- but because that's *all* I see. Do you know how rare it is to see an Ode to the Awesomeness of such and such a woman/POC? Especially when it's done outside the bounds of IBARW or things like that? Do you know how depressing it is as a woman of color to almost never see anything *positive*? Thanks a bunch for making me feel like the characters that I love and find interesting are just problems to be solved. Thanks a bunch. Really.

If you want the writers on Heroes to deal with the problematic treatment of race and gender, maybe it would behoove you to also point out the things they get right. Because otherwise, I'm afraid that returning the show to the heights of last season will mean returning the show to comments like, "Oh my god, can we skip the family Sanders/Hawkins and get back to the Flying Petrelli brothers?" and "Why does the show keep focusing on Mohinder when it could be focusing on Peter?" You want more people of color and women on your media? Maybe it'd be nice to support the things that have them and that do them right *in addition to* criticizing the things that go horribly wrong.

And maybe if all you saw when you looked at DL was a black ex-con and not the dedicated father and family man that he was *clearly portrayed to be*, then it's entirely possible that the problem didn't actually lie with the writers of the show.

And now I am all irritated and must go to work and be nice to people.

Comments

[skywardprodigal.livejournal.com]

Hey.

Yeah, celebrating things that get done well. You make good points. I'll be working on that.

ETA: I bitch a lot, but I try and squee in my own way. Also, do ficathons look in any way like squeeworthy attempts?

[coffeeandink.livejournal.com]

Well, yes and no. People *did* talk a lot about the things Heroes got right when it was getting them right. I am thinking of specific posts where people said, "Yay! Linderman's assistant is an Asian woman and it's just random and not dwelled upon," and "Yay! We got two points where the Threatening Looming Black Man turned out to be someone on the Threatened Blonde's side!" but the thing is, people said these things in Season One when these things were happening. All your examples are S1 examples. People are talking about S2 now because S2 is going on now, and S2 isn't offer much to celebrate on that front.

And I get why you're upset about people not writing about women and COC without the impetus of ficathons, but I'm not sure that putting a complaint about the ficathons--that is, expressions of positive affection towards characters and, you know, the stuff about them that the shows get right--in the same post where you're complaining about not enough fannish celebration of what the shows get right is going to be effective, because as a message, it's pretty mixed.

[marinarusalka.livejournal.com]

You make some damn good points.

And now I really want to write up my thoughts on the awesomeness of Special Agent Victor Henricksen, and how he's kind of the Commodore Norrington of the Supernatural universe.

[claire.livejournal.com]

I don't watch Heroes. I do watch Bones, however and I love that the boss is a woman of colour and that she was dating Booth and no-one ever blinked an eye at that. And Angela and Hodgins ♥ I mean, I do have some problems with the show itself, but those two things always make me happy.

[angstbunny.livejournal.com]

Here via friendsfriends.

The overwhelming negativity is indeed souring. And it bothers me a lot of the times, too, because the "criticisms" I read seem to be as steeped in the same stereotypes as the problems themselves. A fannish equivalent of someone saying that a white lousy driver is just a lousy driver, while an Indian lousy driver is a lousy driver because he's Indian, if that makes any sense as an analogy. Boring and poorly written white characters are just boring and poorly written. Boring and poorly written PoC characters always seem to have their failures framed in terms of their ethnicity. I find that really troubling.

[kattahj.livejournal.com]

Thank you for this. In theory, I enjoy talking about race, but when people dismiss DL as an ex-con and Martha as sexless - especially when it's implied that dissent is Not Seeing the Problem - it makes me... not so eager to talk about race. (Except in private with jadelennox, whose attitude is "I'll tell you how it is here and you'll tell me how it is where you live and we'll both learn things, yay!")

And you're absolutely right that we need more positive things, and fanfic that comes spontaneously, and I'll do my best to think of this.

I'd be more coherent, but I just got back from a twelve hour work day, so my eyes are kind of crossing.

Oh, and you're spot on about Ben. He's clearly the best of them (and I say this as a major Sock fan, so it's The Truth *g*).

[kattahj.livejournal.com]

I hadn't thought of this, but he SO IS.

...And now I'm thinking slash.

[minim_calibre]

And he's the prettiest.

I mean, DIMPLES.

Ahem.

You should. For he is awesome. Aside from the dimples.

[marinarusalka.livejournal.com]

...And now I'm thinking slash.

*dies*

Well, both canons have enough magic floating around to make time-travel possible, so it's only slightly cracktastic.

I wonder what would be hotter, Norrington in a suit (or maybe jeans and leather jacket), or Henricksen in 18th-century swashbuckling garb?

[marinarusalka.livejournal.com]

His dimples are gorgeous. It's like staring into the sun.

And he's all snarky and honorable and representing the forces of law and order in a chaotic world. *loves*

[donella.livejournal.com]

You wouldn't even need time travel. Jack Davenport has kindly portrayed a vampire hunter already, just for such an occasion as this. He's so thoughtful.

[kattahj.livejournal.com]

Ha! I wasn't actually thinking slash between the two of them, just that since Sparrington is such a prevalent pairing, Denricksen probably should be too. ;-) But hey, I'm all in favour of the idea, esp. since as donella pointed out that Jack Davenport has suitable present-time characters as well.

[minna.livejournal.com]

I should talk about Pushing Daisies, but my thoughts are never more coherent than 'HAHA OMG ILU EMERSON' and 'OMG TULIP ILU WOE D:' and 'THE MORGUE GUY! HE'S GIVING THEM THAT LOOK! THAT HE GIVES! ILU SHOW HAHA' and 'SHE'S DRUGGING HER AUNTS THAT'S SO...more CREEPY THAN SWEET BUT AAAAAWH ANYWAY D:'

I think a lot of the negativity is stemming from the fact there's a large number of people in fandom at the moment who never saw any of this shit until recently. Which isn't to go all ZOMG JOHNNY COME LATELY, but instead there are ways you cope with shit when you first start seeing it, and ways you cope with shit when you're half-expecting it. And I think that's the difference between say, reacting to DL's death with FUCKING WHAT O NO THEY DIN'T and various other expressions of OMGRAAAGE and reacting with an 'oh, for fucks' sake' and continuing to write and talk about all the reasons he was awesome.

And to be honest, I'm too recent to not be including myself at least a bit.

[zvi-likes-tv.livejournal.com]

You are totally right! And I am glad you made this post. It is being added to the newbieguide right now, missy.

[zvi-likes-tv.livejournal.com]

And I get why you're upset about people not writing about women and COC without the impetus of ficathons, but I'm not sure that putting a complaint about the ficathons--that is, expressions of positive affection towards characters and, you know, the stuff about them that the shows get right--in the same post where you're complaining about not enough fannish celebration of what the shows get right is going to be effective, because as a message, it's pretty mixed.

Is this intended as a criticism of the structure of sheila's communication or the content?

[arallara.livejournal.com]

You know what would be EVEN MORE GREAT? Talking about the things that are done *right*.

That is a point well-taken. And I think your DL example is perfect because you're absolutely right that so often it's not an either/or issue. There can be awesome things and problematic things in the same show, with the same characters, and the same stories. I'd love to see more of that complexity in fannish discussion, and I know what you mean about the constant critique getting depressing after a while.

Sometimes I also think the hypercritical reading of culture is kind of a stage in consciousness about political stuff. It's like practicing your skills at seeing problematic representations and figuring out how they fit into your political framework.

I've been thinking about that in relation to doing panels on race at cons. In my experience it can be hard to move conversations past the critique of whatever is problematic. So I was thinking, well, maybe that's where the conversation needs to be for a lot of people, so panels should be designed just to focus on that. And maybe there should be different "tracks" of panels for people who are new to thinking about race in fandom, and people who've been around the block a few times. But that would get touchy, right? *sigh* I don't know.

But, anyway! I appreciate your points here a lot, and they're now simmering around with my other thoughts about how to proceed with the race conversation at cons at this point.

[marinarusalka.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, Dean/Henricksen is totally an OTP waiting to happen. I think all it needs is a couple more scenes of them together. Maybe with some wall-slamming and/or handcuffs involved.

[coffeeandink.livejournal.com]

The structure.

[hth-the-first.livejournal.com]

Like, doesn't anyone else find it kind of hinky that these ficathons roll around and people write fic and then are like, "Well, I've done my good minority deed for the year," and then don't write any other fic?

Is that really the case? Because I tend to notice the opposite -- that when I see theme-ficathons of any stripe, the people who sign up for them are inevitably the people who are already interested in the subject and do talk at length in their own journals, etc. -- they just decide to up and do it at the same time this time. I look over the names of people who sign up for the Big Gen Ficathon or the Big Femme Ficathon or the Big Threesome Exchange or the Big CoC Ficathon...and it's pretty much -- well, many people I don't know, and then the ones I do know? Are always exactly the people I'd think they would be. My little sadness about the ficathons (in amidst how awesome I think they are) is that I often fear it's just so much preaching to the choir. People who cared before think it's HEY, AWESOME, and people who didn't care before continue to ignore the subject entirely. I guess I haven't noticed much in the way of people feeling any need or desire to play fair-weather fan in that sense.

I don't know, I think...I'm not sure who you're talking to with this post. Are there really a whole lot of fans who are "negative" about race & gender issues in the media, but don't *also* spend time in squee? Again, it's not like I know everyone who's ever posted anything about race on an intimate level (far from it! I sometimes can't even wrap my mind around how big fandom seems lately...), but in general, the people I see being pissed off are the very people who have been rah-rahing for *ages* about their favorite characters/shows, and who are now just tired and pissed off because that approach -- the Accepted Fannish Approach (write your own stories! rec a lot! run a ficathon! tell us why your character is awesome!) -- doesn't seem to have a significant impact. I've watched people try the Share The Love approach for *years* -- Gunn fans and Weevil fans and Miguel Alvarez fans and Teal'c fans and Mickey fans and Deaq Hayes fans and Warrick Brown fans, and while yes! I'm all for Sharing The Love and agree that it must continue (early and often!)...it seems to keep slamming up against something else.

In the past year, people within fandom have been a hell of a lot more likely than before to say, hey, that something else? Could it be racism, maybe? I agree that it's been tough in a lot of ways on a lot of people, but where I don't at *all* agree with you is that it's coming from people who just haven't bothered or don't care enough to be supportive of their shows and characters as well as critical.

[sherrold.livejournal.com]

okay, not like this is a solution or anything, but I think you've just given me an Emerson bunny and I'm taking it. Thank you kindly!

[callmesandy.livejournal.com]

One of the things I've noticed in the two years of co-running femslash06/7/8 (coming soon to a summer near you!) is that we structure in such a way to scare away all the people who only do it once a year. Intentionally, frankly. And will explicitly say so. Our ficathon is not the time to do a once a year thing, if only because you have to be multi-fandomly femslash yay! :)

Which I suppose I had to defensively note, that we (i think i can say we here) don't do femslash06/7/8 to spread squee, but well, for me, it's about making someone else write brooke/peyton from OTH. ;)

(oh, also? surprisingly awesomely diverse cast? Dark Angel. I had no freaking idea. And not just Alba in the lead! Who knew, james cameron? not me! but yay!

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

the Femslash ficathon is one that feels to me like Yuletide or Remix or like, the choc_fic ficathon, where it's just, "Oh hey, you know what's awesome? More of this thing that we like!" and I'm totally for that. Completely and totally for that, because hey, you know what's awesome? More things that we like :)

But I'm following this Save Heroes thing and just going, "...wait, you want to have a ficathon for the women and people of color? Because...there's no fic about the women and people of color? Well, why isn't there fic about them? Why do you need a ficathon to make you write those things?" and it just *feels* different. It feels like a political statement more than an act of love and that bothers me more than I have words for.

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

Ooooooh. Emerson fic! Hurrah! He's so incredibly fabulous and snarky and practical. I love him to bits.

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

Mostly what I want is more balance, because yes, it's completely and totally wonderful to criticize the problematic elements, but then I worry (a lot) that the characters that are the focal point of the criticism stop being *characters* and start being problems and that's just. Icky. Wow, check out my kickin' vocabulary here.

But like, I tend to love the characters of color and so I keep reading all this criticism and it's all oh, look, another stereotypical portrayal of the looming black man and the discussion doesn't go any further than that and becomes more of the, "Oh unconscious racism, why so skanky?" and I'm left going all, "Amy, Amy, did you see how they turned that stereotype on its head? Wasn't that NEAT?" and...I don't know. I mean, I know and acknowledge that I'm part of the problem by *not* talking about the awesome things, but I just get tired after reading everyone else's reactions to things and I save it up for the people I talk to on the phone.

Anyway, hi, I'm rambling. More balance is what I'm saying.

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

Hee! you are nice :)