potc: dead man's chest

[mimesere]

Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest

I'm going to save Norrington until the end because, well, I want to spend the most time talking about how he is totally the most awesome thing about that movie. But um, so...


The Good:
Will Turner. Yes, I know, I'm as shocked as you are. But I actually liked Will Turner in this movie. He was straight forward, relatively honorable, and while he was still as dumb as a sack of hair, he at least was both justified in his actions and not a complete moral and ethical douche. He was not incompetent, he was not a Lord of Sketchdonia and, well, he got dicked around a lot and I felt kind of bad for his confused puppy self. But mostly it was that he wasn't a dick and, more importantly, he wasn't a *hypocrite*. I like that. I like very much that it was established that a) Will totally is not into piracy qua piracy and b) I love even *more* that he was so not having anything to do with Jack and Elizabeth with the sexytouching. After Norrington's, I found his plotline -- such as it was -- to be the most interesting. So well done Orlando Bloom! Mild interest is way better than the mild disgust I was left with at the end of the first movie.

Tia Dalma. I totally dug Tia Dalma. Yes, she was totally of the peculiarly hilarious and mostly offensive brand of Mystical Negro (from the *south* even) that litters the pop culture landscape, but on the other hand, she didn't take Jack's crap at all. Also, she is Naomie Harris and thus awesome.

Governor Weatherby Swann. Oh my *god* I love Gov. Swann. I love him like burning. I love that he did not trust Cutler Beckett or Will and that he was all about saving his daughter. I love that he worked to save her himself. He was just *awesome* and smart and proactive and I love it like cake that he was the one that told the audience that Norrington had resigned his commission. I *love* that. Oh, Gov. Swann. *heart heart heart*

MacKenzie Crook. I use his actual name because I can't actually be bothered to remember if he is Pintel or Ragetti. I loved him.

The kraken. That fucking rocked, man. It looked cool and sucked people's faces off. I am sometimes very easy.

I love that the end of PotC 1 came back to bite everyone in the ass in PotC 2. I love that there were consequences that arose from letting Jack go. I was less happy with the sense that the movie was treating it like it was totally unjust that there were consequences, but you know. I take my joys where I can.

The Edinburgh Trader. I loved them! All of them and their superstition and their cranky Scottish captain.

Random Black Sailor Guy and His Black French-speaking Compatriot Who Was Too Smart To Go To Racism Skull Cannibal Island. They were hot and they were there! Sadly, their presence does not make up for the rest of the movie.

*

The meh:

Jack Sparrow. And I know I will totally be lynched for this, but um, did anyone else feel like there was something missing from Jack? Like...it seemed very much like he was so busy being Jack Sparrow that he didn't have time to be an actual person. I mean, yes, I liked that he was scared and a-flail, but I don't know. We were told that Jack was a good person but we weren't shown that at all. And I totally admit, I'm still sort of stuck on the idea that he screwed Will over and then agreed to do it to 99 more people. And yes, I know he had the "find the heart and do...something" plan in place, but I didn't get the feeling that if he didn't get the heart, he would step in and accept the consequences of his actions. The 100 souls weren't completely a delaying tactic -- they were at least in part a backup plan and um, that's just a little too shady for me to be entirely okay with.

I don't know. He was both too much and not enough in terms of characterization, I think. The comic, drunken reeling stuff was all there and was almost too much while there wasn't enough of a sense of the man underneath the reeling to make me feel sympathetic. Also, sketchiness. I spent most of the time not really caring about Jack's plot because he totally brought it on himself. He made a deal with the nautical equivalent of the devil and then didn't want to pay up. Whatever, Jack. Just...there was too much shadiness and not enough of a sense that he wasn't a total dick to make me care very much.

Also, WTF? W. T. F. with the rowing away from the Pearl.

So, like I said: It's mostly just meh.

Bootstrap Bill. Wow, Will comes by the dumb honestly, doesn't he? I felt sort of bad for him because he loves his boy and because of that sort of sad resignation when he was all, "So he did become a pirate." And I love that he was willing to take the punishment for Will. But mostly I was like, "Why are you in this movie, Mr. Doesn't Look a Lick Like Orlando Bloom?" and that question was never really answered for me.

Cutler Beckett. Whatever. *Whatever*. Oooh, Big Business is Teh Evil, noes! I mean, I totally give props to the character for being Not a Dumbass, but he wasn't charismatic enough to pull off being the big bad and the character wasn't complex enough to make me question his role. He pulled off a sense of menace, but it was a sense of menace sort of tainted by the feel that Cutler Beckett was one of those weedy little bug-eyed children who grow up to be self-centered dicks because no one would play in their sandbox and they'll show us! Oh yes! I wasn't scared of him so much as I thought he was an absolute ass. But truthfully, this is also a complaint I have about...

Davy Jones. Again, I didn't actually *care* about Davy Jones. I mean, I get why he needs to keep replenishing his crew, but I don't get what the whole broken hearted woobie backstory was supposed to add to his character. Was it supposed to make him sympathetic? 'Cause it didn't. Mostly it made him look like an emo little dick. And the emo dickery wasn't at all mitigated by the crazed Phantom-esque organ playing. Whatever, emo Cthulu-face. At least with Barbossa, you got that he was an *asshole* but he was an asshole with an agenda and a clear plan. Also, he was smart. I did not get the impression that Davy Jones was smart.

I just didn't find the antagonists to be compelling at all either in a Love To Hate Them sort of way or in a reluctantly sympathetic way. They were there and they served their function in the plot, but they didn't creep me out or scare me or make me feel sort of bad or make me laugh. They were just there and that made the plot (and pacing) suffer.

The plot. The plot could have been um. More cohesive. Much like X3 -- less egregiously, but still -- DMC was just sort of a mess. I don't think that the EITC plot and the Devil Wears Tentacles plot meshed very well and just...eh.

*

The Really Really Bad:

Cannibals. OMGWTF. Why was that sequence in the movie? Why? It wasn't so funny that the movie couldn't have done without it, it was racist and insulting as *hell* (um, hello, Jack was *speaking gibberish*, they made him and then *the dog* their god, and just god, no. no. I can't even deal with that), and it dragged the movie's pacing down into fuck nothing for half an hour.

The race issues were just...extreme. And okay, I totally dug that there were POCs in the movie since that's clearly a reaction to the criticism of PotC 1's lack of POCs in the CARIBBEAN, hello. But look, you can't get rid of Anamaria without explanation and then toss in a Mystical Negro, an island of POC cannibals (who didn't goddamn well exist *in the first place*), and a POC crew who existed solely to question Jack Sparrow's leadership and then die. Um. Okay. Fuck you Gore, Jerry, and T&T. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your souls. You *actually did better in the first movie*. At least in that there was Anamaria, Koehler, and Bosun.

Elizabeth. God, she is just a sketchy, sketchy bitch, isn't she? Oh, and a goddamn hypocrite. WTF, guys? Am I supposed to like her? Am I? Because wow, I want to *cut her*. Where do I even start? She left her dad to be arrested after he busted her out of jail, her plan re: Beckett was bitch ass retarded, and while I'm actually okay with her chaining Jack to the mast to die, I have issues with her *lying about it*. She wasn't lying to make Jack look better which I would have been kind of okay with; she was lying to make herself not look like a murdering scumbag. And while this was all going on, she had the gall to be act all, "Unlike you, Jack, I have a sense of honor! and morality! and I am a good person! I am, I am, I am!" Bitch, *please*.

And it really is that self-righteously hypocritical little speech that sent me into frothingly crazy world because okay, I wouldn't actively have a problem with her if she would admit that a) she wants to hit it with Jack and b) she thinks rules apply to everyone else in the world except for her. If she wants to be a pirate, that's all well and good, but then she doesn't get to pretend she's *better than everyone else*. And whatever with the sword fighting. It's been a year. *Whatever*. Augh. God, I hate her. I just hate really passionately despise her and I hope she gets syphilis from Jack and dies. She doesn't care about anyone but herself and Will and I bet you she'll stop giving a crap about Will the minute he says, "Hey, maybe you should be less of a sketchy ho." She's not particularly clever or smart or perceptive -- she is *definitely* not enough of any of those things to even make me *respect her* -- and she's almost entirely selfish and just. Like, she's this shining example of me being told one thing about a character and being shown almost exactly the opposite. She'd be perfectly at home on Stargate: Sketchdonia. God, I hate her. I just hate her.

*breathes*

*

The Norrington Movie

Well, like I said in my voice post, the Norrington Movie kicked *ass*. I loved everything about it. No, really.

I love that his entrance in DMC totally mirrored his entrance in CotBP with the voice first and the talking to Gibbs and I love it like *cake* that Jack is terrified of him.

"What's your story?"
"The same as yours, only one chapter behind." I LOVE THAT. I love that he knows Gibbs' story. LOOOOVE.

The Norrington movie was a return to what made the first PotC movie *work*, at least for me. I think I said somewhere in um, the reams of meta I did for that first movie that a lot of PotC's strength as a character movie rested on the layers and layers of foils and mirrored characters. Will and Norrington were foils, Norrington and Jack were, Norrington and Barbossa were, the Lobsters were mirrored in Pintel and Ragetti, Groves and Gillette were mirrored in Anamaria and Gibbs *and* in Koehler and Bosun. The shadow doubling in PotC 1 was fucking awesome and it was a large part of what made the movie shine.

In DMC, Norrington's acting the role of shadow double *again* and he's doing it with energy and style. That first explicit linking of Norrington to Gibbs sums up, all on its own, in what state Norrington is when he enters DMC. He's where Gibbs was, exactly one chapter behind. He's no longer in the Navy, he's in Tortuga, he's in disgrace, he's drinking, and his path runs directly into Jack's and everything is about to change. I *love that*. I mean, don't get me wrong, I totally dig that we get something of an explanation as to the how and why of Norrington's disgrace (oh, boo, a *hurricane*) which, coupled with Swann's earlier mention of Norrington's resignation, just says so much about Norrington that it makes me all swoony with the love. He resigned! He wasn't asked to leave, he wasn't drummed out, he gave up his commission of his own volition. Oh, *Norrington*. He punishes himself for losing his ship and his crew and his prey! He is the *best*.

Anyway, the thing is, we didn't need that explanation. That first line of Norrington's tells us pretty much what we need to know to infer the rest of his story. It neatly avoids an "As you know..." situation and trusts in the audience's ability to remember what happened in the first movie. So, seriously, they had me from the first line of The Norrington Movie.

But then, *then* the backstory is followed up by:

"...Commodore?"
"Not. Anymore. Weren't you listening?"

*flail*!

Oh. My. *God*. I made a sound so high pitched at that line that only dogs and Superman could hear it.

I *love* that line. I love the lethal precision of it and the sarcasm and the bitterness and, even more, I love how it links Norrington to Jack. Because okay, let's rewind a moment to Jack and Davy Jones' conversation about Jack's debt. The deal was that Davy Jones would raise the Black Pearl from the depths and Jack would captain it for 13 years. Jack makes the point that he only *actually* captained it for two years and Davy Jones basically laughs at him. First because he's right when he says that Jack's lack of competence at captaining is not Davy Jones' problem and *secondly* because Jack's been swanning about introducing himself as *Captain* Jack Sparrow. He insists on it.

We all see where I'm heading with this, right?

Norrington refuses to be called by a title he is no longer in possession of. I love it. I love it with the fire of a thousand burning Caribbean suns. How awesome is that? Seriously. LOOOOVE.

And then! Then! Jack is *scared* of him. So much so that he hides behind a potted plant and carries the plant as he tries to sneak out of the Faithful Bride. But what makes it *better* is that Norrington is having none of that. He aims the gun at Jack without looking and keeps it pointed at him no matter what Jack does.

omgsquee! He is so badass! "Or do I shoot you where you stand?" Love! How can people not love that? *Are* there people who don't love that? Because it is for awesome!

Um. Sorry. I had a moment there.

...squee!

I love that he gets into a brawl and I love that he holds his own. Norrington! Total badass! Which we knew from the first movie when he leapt over the railing of the Dauntless and shot Koehler in the chest without ever flinching at, you know, the undead zombie pirate horde swarming his ship and then pulled his sword and set to immediately after. So, I *knew* he was badass. But it was awfully nice to get that image of him with the gun and the badassery and that sort of arrogant, dangerous recklessness. You know that line immortalized by Sam Jackson when he's listing all these things he's going to do and he ends it with, "I don't give a *fuck*." That! That was Norrington in this movie and he was *awesome*.

So, brawl brawl brawl and then Elizabeth wtf-ever and then Norrington out in the mud! woe! From what I understand, there's a line that was deleted here in response to Elizabeth's question of, "What has the world done to you?" where Norrington's answer is, "Nothing I didn't deserve."

Which, hey, I know that I am not supposed to be all supertexty with stuff in terms of canon, but whatever. It seems very much like once again, a lot of Norrington's better character stuff is going to be in deleted scenes. But you know, it's not like he isn't *completely awesome* anyway, so I am not too terribly fussed. Plus that is stuff for the dvd! Yay!

I think I had another moment. Um. Okay, I'm back.

So, *not only* is Norrington all Mr. Consequence Pants and all dangerous and hot and badass, but he's um, pretty goddamn smart. Because he hears Jack's story to Elizabeth and is immediately with the distrust (which, okay, is pretty much par for the course where Norrington and Jack are concerned) but he also is able to headgame as well as Jack and seriously, how much do I adore Norrington's conversation with Elizabeth where he's all, "What are you, retarded?" 'cause she's all, "Jack is good and would never lie to me!" and hello, what, is she retarded? Full of hate! Sorry! But oh, the *best* part of that conversation for me is not even the headgame where he's all, "Have you wondered about how Will ended up on the Dutchman?" but it's the part where he's (bitter! cynical! angry! woo!) all, "Your current fiance" or latest fiance or whatever it actually is that acknowledges that a) he knows *full well* that she dicked him over and b) that he's *really* not happy about it and c) no pining! No pining for Norrington! Heart heart heart!

*does the dance of no pining*

'Cause okay, seriously? If I were in Norrington's situation, I would be a cynically bitter and snarky bitch too. I really would. But um, he's not pining, he's not piiiiiining. *wins so much*

And oh, did our boy bring the snark. "You're the one who hired me. I can't help it if your standards are lax." Norrington won the bratty taunting hair-pulling love game! He won it so hard that Jack's only response was, "You smell funny." And that was my moment of 'shipperness, thank you and drive through.

I love also that Jack brought him onto Isla Cruces and yes, I understand that he needed to be there to further the plot but still, it says something that Jack would rather have his nemesis and a man who has repeatedly tried to kill/arrest/whatever him with him than, say, Gibbs. Norrington was Jack's *backup*. Because who else do you bring? Norrington's fucking *badass* and Jack knows it. Also? Look, I'm just saying, the Norrington in DMC is a Norrington who is hella dangerous. That is totally not a man you leave your ship and your crew with because he would take it without blinking an eye. And this is what excites me hugely about Norrington in DMC: this Norrington is one who has been stripped of everything that could possibly curb him other than the limits he sets on himself. This is a Norrington who out-pirated *every single person in the movie* and did it *to regain his honor and redeem himself*. How is that not absolutely awesome? Do I have to revise some of my thoughts on characterization? Hell yes, but I don't mind at all because okay, most (if not all) of the Norrington Turns Pirate AUs have been about Norrington being Jack's crew member when um, no. No. The Norrington in CotBP and way a lot the Norrington in DMC is not a man who is going to take orders from someone who isn't *better* than he is.

I love that Norrington figured out where the heart was. I love that Norrington fucked with Elizabeth's head. I love that Norrington *filled in his name* on the pardons and letters of marque. I love that Norrington ran off into the jungle with the chest and threw it at Hermit Crab Head guy. OMG I loved it that Norrington was ready, willing, and able to take on Jack *and* Will and that *he won*. And oh my god, you know what else? I love that latxcvi and I were right about Norrington being a dirty fighter. He *hunts pirates*. Pirates don't fight fair! Why should he? I loved that he kicked sand in Will's eyes. I *cheered* when he did it. Because seriously, Norrington spent the entire movie in the mindset of, "Oh, fuck you all *and* the horses you rode in on," and since I spent the entirety of DMC in pretty much the same state of mind, I cannot help but go, "WOO! ROCK THE FUCK ON!"

Um. Oh, oh, just the *love* for the Norrington movie makes me all flaily and incoherent and full of squee. It was everything I wanted in Norrington's return with bonus Sheer Goddamn Awesome on top of it. Also, he was smoking hot and his voice did bad naughty things to me and HE WON. Norrington wins at life!


Um. Yes. That is my completely uneven and utterly biased review type thing of DMC.

Comments

[dizmo]

Norrington is such an incredible badass, isn't he?

Like I've said to everyone I know who's seen the movie...

Boom. Norrington is the only person in the movie who ends up getting exactly what he wanted.

Because, of course, he is bar none... badass. Period. End of sentence.

(Oh, and I totally agree with the voice going straight to the nether regions. I mean. Really. That Voice in digital surround sound. Just... Nng.)

[irradiatedsoup.livejournal.com]

"Norrington is the only person in the movie who ends up getting exactly what he wanted."

Almost, piratey, wouldn't you say? ;P Take what you can, give nothing back etc.

/shit stirring

I agree with alot of what you said though Sheila. Except for maybe the stuff about Jack (*pets him*) but I'll write up some more coherant thoughts about the whole thing after my third viewing.

I have to say though, I liked Elizabeth more in this one. Unlike the first movie I didn't see Keira, I saw Elizabeth. And the fact that she wasn't trying to hide the fact that she can be a bit of a cunt, I actually liked that, for the same reasons I like Jack. He's not altogether a nice person (but less evil than schemey I think.) I found the kiss between them hot because they are both incredibly ruthless and that is volitile, and while it's not admirable, it's interesting for sure. I also think it's interesting all that stuff with Jack leaving the Pearl and saying "she's just a ship". Like you, the first time I saw it I was like "NO FUCKING WAY", but the second time I was very hrm and thinky.

Will & Bootstrap both make me want to sleep, so I half got you. :P

I'm going to stop blithering now. I love Norry like woah. I especially love that in the fight between the three of them every time there was a chance for a fatal blow, they'd shove, or kick sand, or say something witty at each other. Oh, how disney Pirate movies make me happy.

[(Anonymous)]

I love you. I love you *so* much. I want your babies. Thank you!

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

*g* You're welcome.

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

Oh, I want to see the movie now!! Two more weeks till it's out here.

Anyway, I loved your insights into POTC and usually just said "Word" after reading them. So it makes me very hopeful to see that you think Norrington rock in DMC.

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

Oh, I thought Norrington kicked unholy amounts of ass. He was far and away the best part of the movie for me.

[cupiscent.livejournal.com]

I love you and your brain.

And also Norrington. Even more now than I already did, which I totally knew would happen, which was why I was kinda sorta hanging out for your review meta launch. *G*

But yeah, dude. I may disagree on some of the other niggling points of the movie - but diversity is brilliant and beautiful in fandom - but EVERYTHING you said on Norrington. Big old word. So much love.

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

*g* I figured people would disagree, but as you say, diversity is brilliant and beautiful.

And Norrington is the best! Heart! With the awesome and the ruthless and the competent!

[(Anonymous)]

Me again... Still love you, still want your babies, but after regaining coherence (well, sort of), am I allowed a few questions?
1) Couldn´t it be that Swann is just expressing it politely? (And would it make a difference?)
2) Even under the circumstances, how could Norrington *ever* end up like that in Tortuga? Or did he make the chase a private matter and is actually *waiting* for Jack?
3) *Is he* over Liz entirely? What about that look when she and Turner reunite?
4) Does he betray them when he makes off with the chest *and* the heart, or is he buying them time?
%) What do you think of him supposedly teaming up with Beckett?

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

1) The way Swann says it is completely offhand, like he doesn't have to think about it. So I think it really was a resignation and not a "You can't fire me, I quit!" sort of thing.

2) I was talking with...many people about Norrington and what happens when he hits bottom (um, because I am perverse and would like to write a R+J/PotC/Big Sleep mashup where Norrington is essentially Philip Marlowe) and I think that there are a few things going into the how and why of Norrington in Tortuga. I think, firstly, that Norrington at rock bottom -- especially a Norrington at rock bottom as a result of his own actions -- is going to be a self-destructive Norrington. Because I think he really does have a sense of fair play and if there's no one to blame but himself, then he's going to punish himself and secondly, Jack has to come to Tortuga sometime. Where else is Norrington going to go?

3) Honestly, I think he is. He says things like, "There was a time I would have given anything for you to look like that when you were thinking of me" and he refers to Will as her latest fiance. So I think that while there might be residual feeling (because I do believe that he genuinely loved her), that feeling is also tempered by um, the knowledge that she used him and lied to him. So there might be wistfulness because it *was* love, but I also think that if she offered, he wouldn't accept.

4) This is honestly the sketchiest thing Norrington does in the movie, but even so, I think he had good reason to believe that the crew of the Dutchman would follow the chest rather than the Pearl. So I honestly don't know. So let's go with a combination of both.

5) It depends on what he does and how Beckett presents himself in 3. I don't have a problem at all with Norrington taking the deal because at the time he does, he doesn't know that Beckett is an amoral murdering ass. After? It really will be interesting to see what happens and how it's played.

[galadhir.livejournal.com]

Ha! This is so the meta I've needed to hear :) Stuff has prevented me from seeing the film so far, and by this stage I've been thinking it's not worth going to see it at all. (Because Jack, Will and Liz don't really do a lot for me, and I'm all about Norrington.)

I didn't want to go to see Norrington being humiliated and laughed at and made to look like a whiny irredeemable bastard, but to see Norrington fight the pirates and win? Well yes, sign me up for that :)

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

Oh no, Norrington is furthest from being a mockable, irredeemable character. I *loved* what Gore, Jerry, J-Dav, and T&T did with him. Because, okay, I didn't think they could take Norrington on a darker trajectory the way they did without completely stripping him of all the things that made him awesome in the first movie, but they kept all of it and made him scary as hell to boot.

DMC!Norrington is...have you ever heard that saying that if you scratch a cynic, you'll find a frustrated idealist underneath? That's Norrington. He's angry because he followed the rules, he did his duty, and he got shanked hard and that anger is coupled with a fair degree of pride, ambition, and absolute competence. He's better at being a pirate than the people around him and he doesn't *want* to be. He hates it like whoa.

And it's just so in keeping with the ruthless competence from CotBP and with comments that T&T made about how he would be as a pirate that I am all a-flutter with the squee.

And? And? I love that he is absolutely not emo or tragically manpainy about what happened to him. He's *furious* and destructive and he is *by god* going to get back the life that he fought so hard to earn in the first place.

Like, I think that Norrington is one of those people who, if you play fair with him, he'll play fair with you, but if you *don't* play fair, then he'll just kill you because you can't be trusted to keep to the rules of the game. And none of them -- not Jack, not Will, and certainly not Elizabeth -- played fair with him, so he doesn't owe them a damn thing.

[rokeon.livejournal.com]

He may be denying his rank, but I'm 99% sure Norrington was still wearing his commodore's uniform coat:

[classics-lover.livejournal.com]

He so was, and thank you! Squeeee! Gorgeous hot!man! love!

[elessil.livejournal.com]

I loved the sand kicking too!

About Elizabeth, I have to say that I thought her depression at the end was NOT grief over Jack, but rather her realising that she IS a bitch, and that she finally got off her high horse. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'll give her a benefit of doubt, because her being full of woe by realising she ISN'T Ms. Shiny would be a load of awesome, and though I don't like her, I shall give her the benefit of doubt, for this simple reason: She saved Norrington's life by beaning him over the head. The whole tavern was advancing on him with swords and pistols drawn, and though he's good...realistically, it would've been too much. And they probably wouldn't have ended with hitting him over the head.


I was going to say something more smart here, but I said so much of it today that I'm tired of it and hope you'll forgive me.

And I crave those deleted scenes! I made a list of those I KNOW about in my LJ, and also, I REALLY want the snarky scene where Jack orders James to scrub the deck WITH HIS WIG. There is a picture of it, of James kneeling before Jack on the deck, and god, I just KNOW it was snark galore, and I WANT it.

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

I want to think that Elizabeth at the end of the movie realizes that she is, er, not the arbiter of moral and ethical rightness and honor that she seems to think she is, but I don't know that I trust the writers to go there and I am almost certain that I don't trust Keira Knightley to play it that way. But I am mean and have made peace with that.

[the-grynne.livejournal.com]

Every time Beckett came on screen, I thought of Napoleon standing all puffed up on his soap box.

And Yay! I love echoing your Norrington!squee!

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

*giggle* Beckett did have a bit of a Napoleon complex, didn't he?

And Norrington squee is best!

[polaris-starz.livejournal.com]

Norrington was far and above my favourite part of this movie. I would have been so not thrilled if not for the Norrington yay, for all the reasons that you've said (although I was less articulate about it and mostly went 'squee!'). I'm really looking forward to the fic that comes out of this (though not to having to navigate the fandom...)

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

The Norrington Movie was so awesome. And word to the navigation of the fandom. If you find good fic, you will have to share!

[cherusha.livejournal.com]

You made me love Norrington even more if that's possible. And now I want to rewatch this film to pick back up all the little details you reminded me. Have always loved reading your meta, and hooray! Someone else who wasn't at all impressed with Davy Jones.

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

Davy Jones was all emo! and also a dick! And I keep going back to, "Barbossa was SO MUCH BETTER OMG."

But that is what happens when you have Cthulu for a face and pretend to be the phantom of the opera.

[gloss]

I am very happy for you, Miss!

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

I still say go see Superman Returns instead :)

*mwah*

[doolabug.livejournal.com]

So, what are your thoughts on Norrington?
*tickles you*

For serious though, So. Much. Word. Oh god, more Word than a dictionary.

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

*solemn* I thought Norrington was pretty gosh darn cool.

*smooch*

[classics-lover.livejournal.com]

Word.

I really needed to read this. In the cinema I was all, "would he *really* betray his own principles, and/or ex-girlfriend? He serves others. Wailing, gnashing teeth, etc." But, of course, he is a pirate hunter who needs to hunt pirates. It's so obvious. *facepalms*
So thank you, for that.
And I needed to see the conclusion "He out-pirated the pirates" cos I was angsting way too much over him.

And, oh, his voice did such naughty things to me, too.

[latxcvi.livejournal.com]

In the cinema I was all, "would he *really* betray his own principles, and/or ex-girlfriend? He serves others. Wailing, gnashing teeth, etc."

As I said elsewhere yesterday:

I don't really see how DMC!Norrington's actions are either (a) a betrayal of anyone or (b) unacceptably selfish. Yes, CotBP! Norrington is an honorable man, but he's not a saint. The line isn't "By remembering that I serve others"; it's "By remembering that I serve others and not only myself" (emphasis mine). So right there we were told that yes, Norrington can and does have selfish/self-centered impulses and tendencies, but what keeps them in check is his higher duty to others.

In DMC, there isn't anyone to whom Norrington owes that higher duty. I mean, seriously, all my capacity for Sparrington shippyness aside, James doesn't owe Jack anything; there's a reason he gets interrupted before he can actually *sign* the Pearl's articles. Jack would screw over James and everyone else in a heartbeat to get what he wants; he is owed no higher duty than he's willing to extend to others.

Will and Elizabeth? Please. They know inside the first five minutes of the movie that James is facing the same death sentence they are and yet there isn't a *single moment in the entire movie* when either of them express an ounce of concern for his possible fate. Hell, we don't even see them *tell* James that Beckett's got a warrant out for his arrest/execution. If Will and Elizabeth had demonstrated even the slightest interest in wondering how they could work the whole situation to save themselves *and* James, then I'd be a lot more conflicted about James taking the heart/chest for his own personal reasons without giving a thought to what it means for Will and Elizabeth that they don't get the heart/chest. Will and Elizabeth have already demonstrated through their actions in CotBP that they don't give one whit about what happens to James as long as they can save/help each other.

I'm really not seeing why Norrington *should* be willing to give up his chance at personal redemption for Will and Elizabeth's sake; they wouldn't do it for him. I just can't see that James has done this awful, honor-shredding thing because he took the heart for his own ends and left Jack, Will and Elizabeth to their own devices when *all three of them* have repeatedly demonstrated that they feel no particular fealty to him. I don't think it's reasonable to expect Norrington to *continue* putting Elizabeth's wants/needs/desires ahead of his own when she's repeatedly demonstrated that he doesn't factor into her considerations at all. Being honorable doesn't mean people have to be stupidly or unreasonably selfless/self-sacrificing. To me, expecting Norrington to give up his own chance at a pardon/redemption just so Jack can continue to welsh on a deal he made with his eyes wide open and/or Will and Elizabeth can have a shiny, happy marriage is expecting him to be unreasonably selfless/self-sacrificing.

[voleuse.livejournal.com]

Brilliant review, and I especially like your analysis of Norrington's arc. I just made flaily motions with my hands.

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

*g* It took a few days of digesting to get me through the flaily motions. And sometimes, I think about a particularly awesome scene or line delivery and I go right back to flailing.

[sinister-beauty.livejournal.com]

Awesome META. The Norrington Movie was the shit. And my love is boundless. Badassery came in style on the back of one James Norrington.

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

It's so true! He was terrifyingly badass and totally messing with everyone's head. So much with the awesome!

Thanks for the review. (:

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

I think I'm firmly in the not-seeing-it camp, now, but maybe when I see you next we can just FFwd to the Norrington bits. (:

Re: Thanks for the review. (:

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

That would be awesome and yeah, I mean, I loved the Norrington movie *a lot* (I know, you're so shocked) but it's *maybe* forty minutes of a 2 1/2 hour movie.

For my money, I say go for Superman Returns and wait until um, I can show you the Good Parts version of DMC.

[starfishchick]

Norrington, Norrington, NORRINGTON!

So much love.

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

He deserves cake! And much love! For he was terribly, terribly badass.

[neongreenleaf.livejournal.com]

I want to thank you so much times a million, because I had no clue what was going on with Norrington. My initial reaction was "Norrington bad" but I love Norrington! He couldn't bad! Something must be wrong. And there is. So thank you, 'cause I love Norrington more now than ever.

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

I'm glad I could help!

[syrenssong.livejournal.com]

Holy shite! I must see this movie, if only for the Norrington movie!


::laugh:: When I first saw the preview, and saw Davey Jones for the first time, the first words out of my mouth were "It's Captain Cthuhlu!"

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

Davy Jones is so Mr. Emo Cthuluface it's not even funny. And he makes weird popping sounds.

[tenacitydrader.livejournal.com]

When Norrington first came onscreen, my jaw was on the floor (in a good way). I recognized the voice, of course, but I wasn't sure if or to what extent he was going to be in DMC. They really did a 180 with the character, but it made complete and total sense. Moreover, as a Norrington!fic writer, the indeterminate span of time between the end of CotBP and DMC is for me a goldmine of possibilities.

Whenever people say that he's an honorable man, a "good guy" and I agree, but only to a point. He is, above all, pragmatic, more so in the BP than DMC, but still...my favorite thing was him taking the heart and in so doing, pretty much telling Jack, Will, and Elizabeth to *F* themselves. I can't believe that it was just to get his career back online; there were definitely some vengeful thoughts there. And I agree, he most certainly did not pine for Elizabeth and thank goodness, because she is a whore on many levels. There is a great scene that was cut from BP but is on the DVD, where he pretty much suggests that she is, and Jack almost out-and-out says it.

Anyway, his return was more than just, "wow, he's hot dressed down and so very, very dirty," although that was nice. I would never have guessed that's what they would do with him, but it couldn't have been more perfect. Thanks for summing it up so eloquently (squee!!).

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

I love his pragmatism and I do love how unexpectedly ruthless he was. Like, I knew that was an element of his character but I honestly thought it would have been tempered with more emo. But huzzah! No emo for Norrington!

[itoh.livejournal.com]

Thank you for your wonderful meta. Eversince Friday when I first watched DMC, I had been very disturbed by Norrington's behavior. We had met him when he was still a gentleman, and all along I was unable to reconcile the two extreme personas as coming from the same man. Slowly I had been trying to see a way around that, and finally, after reading your views, I think I've reached a certain state of acceptance. While I still have problems in the two extreme displays, your views and explanations had given me several new points of views and they are most helpful. Again, thanks.

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

I think one of the most interesting through lines about Norrington from CotBP to DMC is that the edginess displayed by his character in CotBP -- that ruthless streak he demonstrates so well when he orders the Dauntless to fire on the Interceptor -- is running rampant in DMC without the tempering effects of being a man in love, with a job to do, surrounded by people he can trust. Like, I don't think it's so much a loss of gentlemanliness as it is a desire to not be kicked in the teeth anymore. I'm not sure how to say it without implying that it's all "Noes, he is TRAGICALLY ALONE!" because I don't think that's what it is. I think...hm. DMC!Norrington absolutely cannot trust anyone to have his back and he knows it, so he is totally looking out for himself in a way he didn't have to look out for himself in CotBP.

Plus the ambition that got him from being a lieutenant to being a commodore in eight years is working overtime to get him his life back. So yes, it's Norrington in extremis, but it's mostly a Norrington who has to survive before he can do much of anything else.

[strangemuses.livejournal.com]

Your review has actually changed my opinion Norrington's portrayal in this movie. I was feeling very bad about Norrington, but when I think of him as 'out pirating' everyone else, it all makes heaps of sense. Thank you for that. It gives me something to actually like about this movie.

I'm still pissed off about how cowardly they wrote Jack. I've read the writers' justification for him trading Will for his own soul and attempting to collect another 99 souls to damn. Their justification was that Jack was trusting to chaos and his usual spur of the moment ability to turn things around, and that he didn't actually intend to sacrifice 100 people.

Maybe that's true, but it wasn't shown on screen.

As for him abandoning the Black Pearl????? The writers were smoking crack. They utterly failed on that point. I'm very disappointed in them for being lazy bastards who truly only care about Elizabeth and Will.

As for those two, I thought that Will was well played. He's still impulsive and not all that bright, but he was consistent with the first movie. So was Elizabeth, who continued to demonstrate that she is the most devious, treacherous, and unlikeable character of them all. Sort of ironic, given that she is the writers' favorite.

[signy1.livejournal.com]

Oh, but I loved the abandoning-the-Pearl bit. Even accounting for the fact that we saw only the first half of a five hour movie, most of DMC was spent watching Jack relinquish everything that makes him what he is. Which hurt. Kind of a lot.

In his first five seconds onscreen, we see him fire his pistol. That pistol. The one he carried, waiting, for ten years without letting himself use, was fired, once, in a comedy gag involving a seagull, and was never seen again. It had become casual, unimportant. Then the hat went, and the crew knew perfectly well that Bad Shit was afoot when he let it go. He gave up his compass because he'd lost his ability to dream. He had to leave Tortuga, his closest thing to a home port, with his tail between his legs, and he couldn't go back to the Isle de Muerte, his home base, because it had bloody sunk under water.

He abandoned the sea. Or tried to, and without the sea, he is not Jack. We know this. Davy Jones knows this. Jack knows this.

Letting the Pearl go was probably the closest he's ever gotten to complete and utter despair, and I don't think he was too sorry to go down with her. I suspect he might have even without Elizabeth's little ruse.

I saw DMC as a movie devoted to stripping the main character(s) of everything that made him what he was. Without losing his ship, that process wouldn't have been complete.

[wemblee.livejournal.com]

Jack Sparrow. And I know I will totally be lynched for this, but um, did anyone else feel like there was something missing from Jack? Like...it seemed very much like he was so busy being Jack Sparrow that he didn't have time to be an actual person.

Yes-yes-YES! I love Jack, and I still like him, but something about him wasn't filling me with that sparky love like POTC1. Part of it might also be that his character's no longer a surprise, in addition to what you said. I've already read people explaining it away as a result of his lack of direction/plan in the story, and I get that, but even if it works for some people as an explanation, it still wasn't as entertaining to me. I think "floundering" is a difficult emotion to play if you're trying to entertain (*insert ten thousand "OMG HAVEN'T YOU EVER SEEN 'HAMLET', BITCH?" retorts here*).

re: Elizabeth-speech-that-makes-your-head-go-'splodey

I honestly have no idea what was going on in that scene. It seemed really random and I kept looking for some other layer and it wasn't there and yeah.

Also, hell yeah, Norrington fights dirty. 'Cause he IS dirteh. AND HOT.

So very, very hot.

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

Jack seemed weirdly passive to me in DMC. And I say weirdly mostly because he starts the movie doing things to keep from having to honor his end of the deal, but he just seemed to be reacting to things and also being shadier than not-shady.

And um, yeah. I spent most of Elizabeth's scenes going "OMGWTF."

[wemblee.livejournal.com]

P.S. Tia Dalma/Norrington?

[mimesere.livejournal.com]

*thinks* I could go there.